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We answer your questions about the people, places, and things that make this region so special.","canonicalUrl":"https://www.kqed.org/podcasts/baycurious","imageData":{"ogImageSize":{"file":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Bay-Curious-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg","width":1200,"height":630},"twImageSize":{"file":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Bay-Curious-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg"},"twitterCard":"summary_large_image"}},"labelTerm":{"site":""},"publishDate":1677106147,"content":"\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-columns\">\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-column\">\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-hearken half-width\">\u003c/div>\n\u003c/div>\n\n\n\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-column\">\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-hearken half-width\">\u003c/div>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003c/div>\n\n\n\n\n\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-hearken full-width\">\u003c/div>\n\n\n\n\n\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-columns\">\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-column\">\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Contact Us\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-section\">\n\u003cp>Send us a note at \u003ca href=\"mailto:baycurious@kqed.org\">baycurious@kqed.org\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\n\n\n\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-column\">\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Follow Us\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-section\">\n\u003cp>Follow us on Instagram:\u003cbr>\u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/oallenprice/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">@oallenprice\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Follow us on Twitter:\u003cbr>\u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/kqedbaycurious\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">@kqedbaycurious\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/oallenprice\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">@oallenprice\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003c/div>\n\n\n\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-biographies\">\n\n\u003c/div>\n\n\n\n\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n","blocks":[{"blockName":"kqed/hero","attrs":{"titleLayout":"svg","titleSVG":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/Bay-Curious-Logotype@2x.png","backgroundImageAlt":"Bay Curious","backgroundImageUrl":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Bay-Curious-Podcast-Banner-1280x500-1.jpg","blurb":"Bay Curious is a show about your questions – and the adventures you find when you go looking for the answers. Join host Olivia Allen-Price to explore all aspects of the Bay Area – from the debate over \"Frisco\", to the dinosaurs that once roamed California, to the causes of homelessness. Whether you lived here your whole life, or just arrived, Bay Curious will deepen your understanding of this place you call home.\u003cbr>\u003cbr>Looking for more ways to get involved? Play our \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/podcasts/baycurious#hearken-10392\">trivia contest\u003c/a>, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/newsletters/bay-curious\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">sign up for our newsletter\u003c/a>, \u003ca href=\"https://survey.alchemer.com/s3/7325022/e2726178469b\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">take our latest survey\u003c/a>, and \u003ca href=\"http://kqed.org/baycuriousbook\">check out our book\u003c/a>.","blurbImageAlt":"Bay Curious","blurbImageUrl":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Bay-Curious-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg","previewID":"news_11156856","hasSponsorLogo":true},"innerBlocks":[],"innerHTML":"","innerContent":[]},{"blockName":"kqed/columns","attrs":[],"innerBlocks":[{"blockName":"kqed/column","attrs":[],"innerBlocks":[{"blockName":"kqed/hearken","attrs":{"iframeId":"656","className":"half-width"},"innerBlocks":[],"innerHTML":"\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-hearken half-width\">\u003c/div>\n","innerContent":["\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-hearken half-width\">\u003c/div>\n"]}],"innerHTML":"\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-column\">\u003c/div>\n","innerContent":["\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-column\">",null,"\u003c/div>\n"]},{"blockName":"kqed/column","attrs":{"heading":"Voting Round"},"innerBlocks":[{"blockName":"kqed/hearken","attrs":{"header":"Voting Round","iframeId":"4627","className":"half-width"},"innerBlocks":[],"innerHTML":"\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-hearken half-width\">\u003c/div>\n","innerContent":["\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-hearken half-width\">\u003c/div>\n"]}],"innerHTML":"\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-column\">\u003c/div>\n","innerContent":["\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-column\">",null,"\u003c/div>\n"]}],"innerHTML":"\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-columns\">\n\n\u003c/div>\n","innerContent":["\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-columns\">",null,"\n\n",null,"\u003c/div>\n"]},{"blockName":"kqed/post-list","attrs":{"layout":"cardsRecent","query":"posts?series=baycurious&queryId=74fed672b9","title":"Stories","seeMore":true,"sizeBase":6,"sizeSeeMore":6},"innerBlocks":[],"innerHTML":"","innerContent":[]},{"blockName":"kqed/hearken","attrs":{"header":"Monthly Trivia Contest","summary":"Thanks for playing our trivia game, sponsored by Sierra Nevada Brewing Company! From all correct entries, we'll randomly select one winner each month for the prize pack of Bay Curious and Sierra Nevada goodies (Approximate value $50).","iframeId":"10392","className":"full-width"},"innerBlocks":[],"innerHTML":"\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-hearken full-width\">\u003c/div>\n","innerContent":["\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-hearken full-width\">\u003c/div>\n"]},{"blockName":"kqed/listen-and-subscribe","attrs":[],"innerBlocks":[],"innerHTML":"","innerContent":[]},{"blockName":"kqed/columns","attrs":{"heading":"Contact / Follow"},"innerBlocks":[{"blockName":"kqed/column","attrs":[],"innerBlocks":[{"blockName":"core/heading","attrs":[],"innerBlocks":[],"innerHTML":"\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Contact Us\u003c/h2>\n","innerContent":["\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Contact Us\u003c/h2>\n"]},{"blockName":"kqed/section","attrs":[],"innerBlocks":[{"blockName":"core/paragraph","attrs":[],"innerBlocks":[],"innerHTML":"\n\u003cp>Send us a note at \u003ca href=\"mailto:baycurious@kqed.org\">baycurious@kqed.org\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n","innerContent":["\n\u003cp>Send us a note at \u003ca href=\"mailto:baycurious@kqed.org\">baycurious@kqed.org\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n"]}],"innerHTML":"\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-section\">\u003c/div>\n","innerContent":["\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-section\">",null,"\u003c/div>\n"]},{"blockName":"core/paragraph","attrs":[],"innerBlocks":[],"innerHTML":"\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n","innerContent":["\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n"]}],"innerHTML":"\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-column\">\n\n\n\n\u003c/div>\n","innerContent":["\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-column\">",null,"\n\n",null,"\n\n",null,"\u003c/div>\n"]},{"blockName":"kqed/column","attrs":{"heading":"Follow Us"},"innerBlocks":[{"blockName":"core/heading","attrs":[],"innerBlocks":[],"innerHTML":"\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Follow Us\u003c/h2>\n","innerContent":["\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Follow Us\u003c/h2>\n"]},{"blockName":"kqed/section","attrs":[],"innerBlocks":[{"blockName":"core/paragraph","attrs":[],"innerBlocks":[],"innerHTML":"\n\u003cp>Follow us on Instagram:\u003cbr>\u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/oallenprice/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">@oallenprice\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n","innerContent":["\n\u003cp>Follow us on Instagram:\u003cbr>\u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/oallenprice/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">@oallenprice\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n"]},{"blockName":"core/paragraph","attrs":[],"innerBlocks":[],"innerHTML":"\n\u003cp>Follow us on Twitter:\u003cbr>\u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/kqedbaycurious\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">@kqedbaycurious\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/oallenprice\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">@oallenprice\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n","innerContent":["\n\u003cp>Follow us on Twitter:\u003cbr>\u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/kqedbaycurious\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">@kqedbaycurious\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/oallenprice\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">@oallenprice\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n"]}],"innerHTML":"\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-section\">\n\n\u003c/div>\n","innerContent":["\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-section\">",null,"\n\n",null,"\u003c/div>\n"]}],"innerHTML":"\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-column\">\n\n\u003c/div>\n","innerContent":["\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-column\">",null,"\n\n",null,"\u003c/div>\n"]}],"innerHTML":"\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-columns\">\n\n\u003c/div>\n","innerContent":["\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-columns\">",null,"\n\n",null,"\u003c/div>\n"]},{"blockName":"kqed/biographies","attrs":{"heading":"The Bay Curious Team","bioType":"white"},"innerBlocks":[{"blockName":"kqed/biographies-item","attrs":{"mediaURL":"https://ww2.kqed.org/news/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2019/11/IMG_2562-e1572650381510.jpg","mediaAlt":"Olivia Allen-Price","name":"Olivia Allen-Price","position":"Host / Editor","bio":"Olivia is a big believer in the value of public-powered journalism. She helped launch \u003cem>Bay Curious\u003c/em> as a radio series in 2015, then turned it into a podcast in 2017. Before working on the show, Olivia was an engagement producer at KQED. She's also worked at \u003cem>The Baltimore Sun\u003c/em> and \u003cem>The Virginian-Pilot\u003c/em>. When not tethered to a computer by a pair of headphones, Olivia loves running, playing with other people's dogs and taking weekend trips around California. Follow her on \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/oallenprice\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Twitter\u003c/a> or \u003ca href=\"https://instagram.com/oallenprice\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Instagram.\u003c/a>","link":"/author/oallenprice"},"innerBlocks":[],"innerHTML":"","innerContent":[]},{"blockName":"kqed/biographies-item","attrs":{"mediaURL":"https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/a6a567574dafefa959593925eead665c?s=600&d=https://i.imgur.com/u9MDiPR.png&r=g","mediaAlt":"Katrina Schwartz","name":"Katrina Schwartz","position":"Producer","bio":"Katrina grew up in San Francisco and loves learning new things about her hometown. She helped pilot the first iteration of\u003cem> Bay Curious\u003c/em> when it was just a radio feature. Before joining the team, Katrina reported on education for \u003cem>MindShift\u003c/em> and was a finalist for the Education Writers Association beat reporting and audio storytelling awards. She co-hosts the \u003cem>MindShift\u003c/em> podcast about the future of learning, and has been making radio since 2010. When she’s not reporting, Katrina loves reading, the ocean and the mountains, and playing ultimate frisbee.","link":""},"innerBlocks":[],"innerHTML":"","innerContent":[]}],"innerHTML":"\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-biographies\">\n\n\u003c/div>\n","innerContent":["\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-biographies\">",null,"\n\n",null,"\u003c/div>\n"]},{"blockName":"kqed/ad","attrs":[],"innerBlocks":[],"innerHTML":"","innerContent":[]},{"blockName":"kqed/programs","attrs":{"title":"We Also Recommend","programIDs":["mindshift","rightnowish","soldout","onourwatch","thebay","forum"]},"innerBlocks":[],"innerHTML":"","innerContent":[]}],"status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1713221684,"format":"standard","path":"/podcasts/baycurious","redirect":{"type":"internal","url":"/podcasts/baycurious"},"audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-columns\">\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-column\">\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-hearken half-width\">\u003c/div>\n\u003c/div>\n\n\n\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-column\">\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-hearken half-width\">\u003c/div>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003c/div>\n\n\n\n\n\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-hearken full-width\">\u003c/div>\n\n\n\n\n\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-columns\">\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-column\">\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Contact Us\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-section\">\n\u003cp>Send us a note at \u003ca href=\"mailto:baycurious@kqed.org\">baycurious@kqed.org\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\n\n\n\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-column\">\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Follow Us\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-section\">\n\u003cp>Follow us on Instagram:\u003cbr>\u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/oallenprice/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">@oallenprice\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Follow us on Twitter:\u003cbr>\u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/kqedbaycurious\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">@kqedbaycurious\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/oallenprice\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">@oallenprice\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003c/div>\n\n\n\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-biographies\">\n\n\u003c/div>\n\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"featImg":"root-site_21263","label":"root-site","isLoading":false}},"postsReducer":{"stream_live":{"type":"live","id":"stream_live","audioUrl":"https://streams.kqed.org/kqedradio","title":"Live Stream","excerpt":"Live Stream information currently unavailable.","link":"/radio","featImg":"","label":{"name":"KQED Live","link":"/"}},"stream_kqedNewscast":{"type":"posts","id":"stream_kqedNewscast","audioUrl":"https://www.kqed.org/.stream/anon/radio/RDnews/newscast.mp3?_=1","title":"KQED Newscast","featImg":"","label":{"name":"88.5 FM","link":"/"}},"news_11644927":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11644927","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"news","id":"11644927","score":null,"sort":[1712829645000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"eucalyptus-how-californias-most-hated-tree-took-root-2","title":"Eucalyptus: How California's Most Hated Tree Took Root","publishDate":1712829645,"format":"audio","headTitle":"Eucalyptus: How California’s Most Hated Tree Took Root | KQED","labelTerm":{},"content":"\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a> \u003cem>This article was first published in February 1, 2018, and was updated on April 11, 2024. \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Depending on whom you ask, eucalyptus trees are either an icon in California or a fire-prone scourge.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Bay Curious heard from two hikers wanting to know about the past and future of California’s eucalyptus trees.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[baycuriouspodcastinfo]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“How did all of this eucalyptus get to the Bay Area?” asked Christian Wagner, a tech worker who lives in Pleasanton.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I know that they’re invasive, so what do we do about that? Are they worth keeping around? Or do we need to get rid of them and replace them with something else?” wondered Julie Bergen, an occupational therapist from Alameda.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Reaching heights of more than 100 feet, the main kind of eucalyptus you’re likely to see here is Tasmanian blue gum, eucalyptus globulus. They feature sickle-shaped leaves hanging from high branches, and deciduous bark that is forever peeling from their shaggy trunks. Some people experience the smell of eucalyptus as medicinal; others say the trees just smell like California.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11647124\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-11647124 size-medium\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/news/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS29068_eucalyptusgrove7-800x533.jpg\" alt=\"The trees are deciduous, shedding their bark every year.\" width=\"800\" height=\"533\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS29068_eucalyptusgrove7-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS29068_eucalyptusgrove7-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS29068_eucalyptusgrove7-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS29068_eucalyptusgrove7-1920x1280.jpg 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS29068_eucalyptusgrove7-1180x787.jpg 1180w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS29068_eucalyptusgrove7-960x640.jpg 960w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS29068_eucalyptusgrove7-240x160.jpg 240w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS29068_eucalyptusgrove7-375x250.jpg 375w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS29068_eucalyptusgrove7-520x347.jpg 520w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">The trees are deciduous, shedding their bark every year. \u003ccite>(Samantha Shanahan/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003ch2>So how did eucalyptus trees get here?\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>“They came here as envelopes of seeds on boats coming to California in the 1850s,” explains Jared Farmer, author of \u003ca href=\"https://jaredfarmer.net/books/trees-in-paradise/\">“Trees In Paradise: A California History.”\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>During the Gold Rush, Australians were among the throngs flocking to a place where wood was in short supply.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“This was the era of wood power,” Farmer says. “Wood was used for almost everything. For energy, of course, but also for building every city, for moving things around, all the things where today we use concrete and plastic and steel.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Besides the practical need to plant more trees, settlers who were used to dense forests also felt that the lack of trees in California’s grassy, marshy, scrubby landscape made it feel incomplete. So within a few years, nurseries in San Francisco were selling young eucalyptus grown from seed.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The trees grew remarkably quickly here, even in poor soil.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“In an average rainfall year here in California, these trees probably put on 4 to 6 feet in height and maybe, in their early growth years, a half-inch to an inch in diameter,” says Joe McBride, a UC Berkeley professor emeritus of landscape architecture and environmental planning.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Beyond the drive to change the landscape and provide firewood, Californians also planted eucalyptus (mainly blue gum) to serve as windbreaks.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11647125\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-11647125 size-medium\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/news/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS29071_eucalyptusgrove10-800x533.jpg\" alt=\"Eucalyptus trees grow fast, sometimes putting on four to six feet in height in a single year.\" width=\"800\" height=\"533\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS29071_eucalyptusgrove10-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS29071_eucalyptusgrove10-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS29071_eucalyptusgrove10-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS29071_eucalyptusgrove10-1920x1280.jpg 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS29071_eucalyptusgrove10-1180x787.jpg 1180w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS29071_eucalyptusgrove10-960x640.jpg 960w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS29071_eucalyptusgrove10-240x160.jpg 240w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS29071_eucalyptusgrove10-375x250.jpg 375w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS29071_eucalyptusgrove10-520x347.jpg 520w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Eucalyptus trees grow fast, sometimes putting on 4 to 6 feet in height in a single year. \u003ccite>(Samantha Shanahan/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>In fact, that was the original purpose of what’s now the largest, densest stand of blue gum eucalyptus in the world, on campus at Berkeley, says McBride. It was planted around 140 years ago to provide a windbreak for an old cinder running track — to keep its fine ashen gravel from blowing into athletes’ faces.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The trees’ success in California owed to a lack of enemies here. Because they were grown from seed, they hadn’t brought along any of the pests or pathogens they contend with back in Australia.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>An early 20th century boom\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Within a few decades of its arrival, many Californians grew disenchanted with eucalyptus. Blue gum proved terrible for woodworking — the wood often split and cracked, making it a poor choice for railroad ties. The trees also proved thirsty enough to drain nearby wells.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“If you go back to California farm journals of the 1870s, ’80s, ’90s, there’s just report after report of disappointment, like ‘these trees are no good,’ ” says Farmer, the historian.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But things changed in the early 20th century when U.S. Forest Service officials grew concerned about a looming timber famine. They feared forests in the eastern United States had been overexploited and wouldn’t grow back, and predicted the supply of hardwood would dwindle over the next 15 years.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11647127\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-11647127 size-medium\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/news/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS29072_eucalyptusgrove11-800x533.jpg\" alt=\"The bark sheds often, peeling in large strips.\" width=\"800\" height=\"533\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS29072_eucalyptusgrove11-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS29072_eucalyptusgrove11-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS29072_eucalyptusgrove11-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS29072_eucalyptusgrove11-1920x1280.jpg 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS29072_eucalyptusgrove11-1180x787.jpg 1180w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS29072_eucalyptusgrove11-960x640.jpg 960w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS29072_eucalyptusgrove11-240x160.jpg 240w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS29072_eucalyptusgrove11-375x250.jpg 375w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS29072_eucalyptusgrove11-520x347.jpg 520w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">The bark sheds often, peeling in large strips. \u003ccite>(Samantha Shanahan/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Investors saw an opportunity: California had a tree capable of growing to full size within that time frame. If hardwood was about to be scarce, they reasoned, such trees could be in high demand and yield sizable returns within a few short years.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>These people, Farmer says, were not reading blue gum’s lousy reviews in old farm reports. “And even if they did read them, maybe they wouldn’t care because they just wanted to make a buck; they were just flipping land.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This played out as a speculative frenzy — a bubble. Boosters began selling plantations dense with eucalyptus — hundreds of trees per acre. Farmer writes in his book that claims were made like: “Forests Grown While You Wait,” and “Absolute Security and Absolute Certainty.” In just a few years, millions of blue gums were planted from Southern California up to Mendocino.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The anticipated timber famine never came to pass. Forests further east proved more resilient than expected, and the need was offset by concrete, steel and imports, like mahogany. Ultimately, the thousands of acres of eucalyptus planted around California were not even worth cutting down. Much of what you see today is a century-old abandoned crop.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>What’s fire got to do with it?\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Eucalyptus trees have lovers and haters in California. A big part of the debate over whether the trees should be allowed to persist here traces back to the East Bay firestorm of 1991, which left 25 people dead and thousands homeless. Vast swaths of eucalyptus burned.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“People at the time, I don’t think, associated that with a planted plantation; it was just a eucalyptus forest,” says CalPoly botanist Jenn Yost. “And then when the fire came through — I mean that fire came through so fast and so hot and so many people lost their homes that it was a natural reaction to hate blue gums at that point.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Many experts say that eucalyptus trees worsen the fire threat for a few reasons.\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>The bark they shed dries out quickly and creates fuel.\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>Once a fire starts, that bark easily catches the wind and can be blown miles away, spreading the fire quickly.\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>Eucalyptus trees are really oily. The oil is actually what gives off that intense fragrance they’re known for. But in a fire, that oil also makes them flammable.\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>But Eucalyptus trees have supporters too, who argue other plants in their place would also burn. A few years ago, federal funding to cut down trees in the East Bay hills was \u003ca href=\"http://www.berkeleyside.com/2016/09/19/fema-pulls-funding-for-tree-clearing-in-berkeley-hills/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">rescinded\u003c/a>, after \u003ca href=\"http://www.berkeleyside.com/2015/07/18/in-berkeley-protesters-strip-naked-to-try-to-save-trees/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">protesters\u003c/a> got naked and hugged the eucalyptus trees on campus at Cal. \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">But after a nearly decade-long legal battle, a court gave UC Berkeley the go-ahead to cut. Still, it’s a drop in the bucket when you think about how many of these trees we have in California.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11647123\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\" style=\"max-width: 640px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-large wp-image-11647123\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/news/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS29066_eucalyptusgrove2-1020x1530.jpg\" alt=\"To some, the scent of eucalyptus trees is simply the scent of California.\" width=\"640\" height=\"960\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS29066_eucalyptusgrove2-1020x1530.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS29066_eucalyptusgrove2-160x240.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS29066_eucalyptusgrove2-800x1200.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS29066_eucalyptusgrove2-1920x2880.jpg 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS29066_eucalyptusgrove2-1180x1770.jpg 1180w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS29066_eucalyptusgrove2-960x1440.jpg 960w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS29066_eucalyptusgrove2-240x360.jpg 240w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS29066_eucalyptusgrove2-375x563.jpg 375w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS29066_eucalyptusgrove2-520x780.jpg 520w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 640px) 100vw, 640px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">To some, the scent of eucalyptus trees is simply the scent of California. \u003ccite>(Samantha Shanahan/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003ch2>Are they here to stay?\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Blue gums can’t reproduce on their own just anywhere in California; Yost says they need year-round moisture. They’re able to regenerate in places like California’s coastal fog belt, but elsewhere “there are some plantations that don’t reproduce at all. When you go there, the trees are all in their rows, there’s few saplings anywhere to be seen, and those trees are just getting older.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Not all non-native plants capable of reproducing on their own do it enough to have an ecological impact, Yost says.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“As soon as it starts outcompeting native species or fundamentally changing the environment so that native species can’t grow there, we would consider that an invasive species,” she says.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Blue gum is \u003ca href=\"http://www.cal-ipc.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Cal-IPC_News_Summer2014-6.pdf#page=10\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">classified\u003c/a> as a “moderate” invasive, putting it a \u003ca href=\"http://www.cal-ipc.org/plants/inventory/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">tier\u003c/a> below such uncharismatic weeds as yellow star-thistle and medusahead. McBride, the retired Berkeley professor, says “although there’s been marginal expansion of some eucalyptus stands, it’s really not well adapted for long-distance dispersal. It hasn’t really spread very much on its own.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[baycuriousbug]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>With an estimated 40,000 acres of unharvested eucalyptus planted across the state, the trees aren’t easy to get rid of. Slicing down a large blue gum near a building can require a crane, at an expense of thousands of dollars. And keeping them from resprouting can also be its own chore.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Long term, as the climate changes over the coming decades, it’s possible the aging eucalyptus groves that don’t get enough water to reproduce will begin to die.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Then again, if the state becomes \u003ca href=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/science/2015/02/12/new-study-global-warming-will-bring-megadroughts-to-the-west/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">hotter and drier\u003c/a>, it may become the type of place where some Australian species are able to thrive.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[baycuriousquestion]\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Do you see any koala bears?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Daniel Potter:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> I wish.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>\u003ci>[sound of bark crunching underfoot]\u003c/i>\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Daniel Potter:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Should we tell people where we are?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yeah, so we are at the Mount Sutro Open Space Reserve. Which has gotta be pretty close to the geographic center of San Francisco, would you imagine, right?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Daniel Potter: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I think that’s fair. And we are surrounded by a ton of what look to be ancient eucalyptus trees.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> If you’re not familiar with eucalyptus trees, they’re very tall. How tall would you say those are?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Daniel Potter: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">We’ve seen some today over a hundred feet, for sure.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Definitely. And they have this weird bark, where the underpart of the tree is really smooth but their bark on the outside flakes off.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Daniel Potter:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> It’s deciduous, but it leaves this tan, almost naked-looking trunk behind.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> And these would not be good climbing trees.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Daniel Potter:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Yeah, most of the branches, like, what’s the lowest branch on that one? It’s like 30 feet up, how are you gonna climb that?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">One thing I think a lot of people remark about eucalyptus trees in the smell.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>\u003ci>(inhale, exhale)\u003c/i>\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Daniel Potter: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Some people hate it. But a couple people I talked to for this story—they say these trees just smell like California.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Which is pretty weird for a tree from Australia! \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>\u003ci>Theme music\u003c/i>\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> I’m Olivia Allen-Price, and this is Bay Curious, where we answer your questions about the Bay Area. On this episode, science writer Daniel Potter and I take a closer look at Eucalyptus Trees.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Daniel Potter: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">They have lovers—and haters.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And there are giant stands of them throughout our region. This story first ran in 2018, but your questions about eucalyptus trees have kept on coming! So we thought it was time to freshen up this episode with some new information. We’ll get to it right after this.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>\u003ci>Sponsor Message\u003c/i>\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Alright! Let’s get to this week’s question, shall we? Or should I say \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">QUESTIONS\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> because we heard from two different listeners on this one…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christian Wagner:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> How did all of this eucalyptus get to the Bay Area?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">That’s Christian Wagner. He’s noticed lots of eucalyptus trees as he’s out and about because he likes hiking.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Daniel Potter:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> –as does Julie Bergen.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Bergen:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And I know that they’re invasive, so what do we do about that? Are they worth keeping around? Or do we need to get rid of them and replace them with something else?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Christian and Julie both wonder about eucalyptus’ past—and its future here. Some people argue the trees are bad for \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">native\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> plant life—and a fire hazard—and need to go. So. Science writer Daniel Potter!\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Daniel Potter:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Howdy.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Where do we begin unraveling this one?\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Daniel Potter:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> In a forest. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>\u003ci>Albany Hill outdoor ambi\u003c/i>\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Daniel Potter:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Let’s start with one on Albany Hill in the East Bay. You can see it from I-80, near the racetrack. That’s where I talked to this guy…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jared Farmer: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">My name is Jared Farmer, I’m a professor of history at Stony Brook University, and the author of \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Trees In Paradise: A California History\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Daniel Potter: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">That book includes a solid hundred pages on eucalyptus trees in California, so I asked Farmer how they got here:\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jared Farmer: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">They came here as envelopes of seeds on boats in the 1850s.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Daniel Potter: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">He says the Gold Rush drew people from all over—including from Australia. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Sea shanty music …“In South Australia I was born, heed away all the way”\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Daniel Potter: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And they were coming to a place where wood was in short supply. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jared Farmer: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">What we think of today as like say native California, Indigenous California, or pre-contact California was far more woody than wooded. Actually it was far more land that was chaparral and savanna and wetland and marshland than timberland…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Daniel Potter:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> People settling here wanted to plant trees. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">If you’re used to trees, the California landscape might feel… incomplete without them. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Daniel Potter:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> And then there were the practical concerns, since Californians were quickly downing what trees \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">were \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">here.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jared Farmer: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">This was course just the era of wood power—wood was used for almost everything. For energy of course but also for building every city, for moving things around, all the things today we use concrete and plastic and steel.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Daniel Potter: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So by the 1850s you could buy young eucalyptus in nurseries in San Francisco. It was grown here from seed, which meant it didn’t bring along any of the usual bugs or pathogens it faces back home. The lack of pests made it easy for these trees to grow really tall, really fast.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>\u003ci>(Berkeley outdoor ambi)\u003c/i>\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Joe McBride:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> I would say in an average rainfall year here in California, these trees probably put on four to six feet in height.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Daniel Potter: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">This is Joe McBride, professor emeritus of landscape architecture and environmental planning at UC Berkeley. I met him in a towering stand of ancient eucalyptus on campus.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Joe McBride: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">These trees are now over 200 feet tall, and the largest ones are approaching six feet in diameter.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Daniel Potter: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Near the present-day Life Sciences building there used to be a cinder running track—picture fine ashen gravel. A hundred and forty years ago \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">…\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> at a fabled track meet with Stanford … supposedly the wind was so bad it blew cinder in everyone’s faces and the Stanford coach took his team home—track meet \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">over\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Joe McBride:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> As a result of that, the campus planted this grove of eucalyptus trees as a windbreak, to prevent the wind from blowing the cinders into other athletes eyes in the future. This is the largest, densest stand of blue gum eucalyptus in the world.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Tell us what that is— blue gum eucalyptus…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Daniel Potter:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> So, the genus eucalyptus includes hundreds of species—some more like shrubs than giant trees. A lot were tried out here, but the main one today is Tasmanian blue gum, eucalyptus globulus. Side note: apparently even botanists can’t always tell what species they’re looking at without climbing way up to check out the fruit… \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So for a time these trees were planted on purpose – but many people came to hate them. What changed?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jared Farmer:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> If you go back to California farm journals of the 1870s, 80s, 90s, there’s report after report of disappointment, like these trees are no good.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Daniel Potter: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">That’s Jared Farmer, the historian again. It turns out while our blue gum gets tall real fast, it’s not ideal for woodworking—it splits and cracks and doesn’t hold up if you’re making railroad ties. It also sucks up a lot of water, which is handy if you’re trying to drain swampland, but less handy if your well is nearby. People were kinda over it. Until!\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Joe McBride: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">At the turn of the 20\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">th\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> century, we were faced with a crisis in terms of hardwood forest that had been cut over in the eastern United States.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Daniel Potter: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">In 1907, the U.S. Forest Service predicted a looming hardwood famine. People thought there was only about a 15-year supply before we ran out of usable forest. That gave eucalyptus boosters an idea: plant now, and fast-growing blue gums could be big enough to harvest once the famine hits.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Joe McBride: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Here in the Bay Area, for $100 you could buy an acre of land… planting those trees on 6 by 6 spacing, about 1,200 trees per acre. So they sold lots of these on a speculative basis.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Daniel Potter: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">This became a frenzy—a bubble. Companies suckered investors with claims like \u003c/span>\u003cb>\u003ci>“\u003c/i>\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Forests Grown While You Wait” and “Absolute Security and Absolute Certainty.” Within a few years, thousands of acres were bought up and planted with eucalyptus, from Southern California up to Mendocino.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Wait, didn’t we just say blue gum was terrible for woodworking? Why was everyone still planting it?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Daniel Potter:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> In his book, Farmer gives a few reasons: blue gum was familiar, seeds were everywhere, it could grow in lousy soil—plus a blend of historical ignorance and artful deception.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jared Farmer:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> In part because these people were not reading farm reports from the 1870s and 1880s, and even if they did read them maybe they wouldn’t care because they just wanted to make a buck, they were just flipping land.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Daniel Potter: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Fears of a hardwood famine ultimately proved overblown. Concrete and steel became cheaper, forests further east recovered, and people started making furniture from imported wood like mahogany instead. California’s eucalyptus trees weren’t even worth cutting down—so there they stand. They’re like century-old abandoned crops. Farmer describes their presence here as a beautiful mistake. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">That brings us to the second half of this week’s question from Julie and Christian:\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Bergen: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I know that they’re invasive, so what do we do about that?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christian Wagner: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">To what extent is it sort of here to stay?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Daniel Potter:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> I took this question to Jenn Yost, a botanist at CalPoly. While some people see California’s eucalyptus trees as a heinous invasive species and want them gone, Yost was careful to delineate between \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">non-native\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">—which these trees definitely are—and \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">invasive\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jenn Yost:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Just because something reproduces a little bit, sometimes it doesn’t do it enough where it has an ecological impact. And as soon as it starts outcompeting native species or fundamentally changing the environment so that native species can’t grow there, we would consider that an invasive species.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Daniel Potter: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">While many kinds of eucalyptus have been tried out in California, only \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">two\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> are good enough at reproducing here to be considered \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">invasive\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">: the red gum and the blue gum. And those don’t seem able to reproduce just \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">anywhere\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">. In some drier parts of the state, the old plantations aren’t spreading.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jenn Yost:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> You see blue gums being weedy and really reproducing on their own in areas that have summer moisture, and that’s usually in the form of fog. Or you see them being weedy in places with year-round water, like irrigation ditches or places with seeps.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Daniel Potter:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Blue gum is classified as a “moderate invasive.” Compared to other, faster-moving weeds, it’s not California’s most-wanted ravaging the countryside. Yost attributes a lot of the current resentment to the historic 1991 fire in the East Bay hills, where tons of eucalyptus burned.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jenn Yost:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> People at the time I don’t think associated that with a planted plantation; it was just a eucalyptus forest. And then when the fire came through—I mean that fire came through so fast and so hot and so many people lost their homes that it was a natural reaction to hate blue gums at that point.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Archival tape: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Pushed by 30 mile per hour winds, fire swept down the Oakland Berkeley hills destroying everything in its path.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The East Bay Hills fire was hugely devastating… 25 people died and thousands were left homeless. Many experts say that eucalyptus trees worsen the fire threat for a few reasons… The bark they shed dries out quickly and creates fuel…a lot of fuel. Once a fire starts, that bark easily catches the wind and can be blown miles away, spreading the fire quickly. Also: Eucalyptus trees are really oily. The oil is actually what gives off that intense fragrance they’re known for. But in a fire, that oil also makes them flammable.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Daniel Potter:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Other folks argue different plants in their place would also burn. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">This is an entrenched debate! A few years ago there was federal fire-prevention funding to cut down trees in those same hills, and people protested. Folks got naked and hugged the blue gums on campus at Berkeley. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> But after a nearly decade-long legal battle, a court gave UC Berkeley the go-ahead to cut down dozens of acres of Eucalyptus last year. Still, it’s a drop in the bucket when you think about how many of these trees we have in California.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Daniel Potter: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yost estimates there’s something like 40 thousand acres of unharvested crops in the state. It’s not hard to extrapolate upwards of ten million trees statewide. Cutting each one down takes time and money.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So really the question of whether eucalyptus is going away comes down to who’s backyard it’s in. Can they afford to cut the trees down? Is the political will there to do it? \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So that’s where things are. What did our question askers think? Christian and Julie.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Bergen:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">That was absolutely fascinating. I did not know that the history was even that rich.\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Christian Wagner: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I have to say I love the idea that a lot of what we see was a get-rich-quick scheme. Because that is just a theme that happens so often in America and in California.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So often to our detriment. Science Writer Daniel Potter, thanks for stomping around so many forests for us this week. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Daniel Potter: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Happy to do it!\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">A note: A few of the sources quoted in his story have changed jobs since they were first interviewed in 2018.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">If you’ve ever wondered what all goes into making a Bay Curious story sound the way it does … join producer Katrina Schwartz and I TONIGHT, April 11 for our talk: Elevating Audio Stories with Sound for the PRX Podcast Garage. We’ll be talking through how we use music, sound effects, archival material, narration and more to bring the Bay Curious podcast to life. Join us in person at KQED’s Headquarters, or on the livestream. Tickets are free if you use the code “baycurious.” Grab yours at \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"http://kqed.org/podcast\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">kqed.org/podcastgarage\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Bay Curious is made by Katrina Schwartz, Christopher Beale, and me, Olivia-Allen Price. Additional support from Jen Chien, Katie Sprenger, Cesar Saldana, Maha Sanad, Holly Kernan and the whole KQED Family. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christian Wagner:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Bay Curious is made in San Francisco at KQED. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I’m Olivia Allen-Price. Have a great week!\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"Depending on whom you ask, eucalyptus trees are either an icon in California or a fire-prone scourge.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1712783726,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":true,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":118,"wordCount":4111},"headData":{"title":"Eucalyptus: How California's Most Hated Tree Took Root | KQED","description":"Depending on whom you ask, eucalyptus trees are either an icon in California or a fire-prone scourge.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":""},"source":"Bay Curious","audioUrl":"https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/pdst.fm/e/chrt.fm/track/G6C7C3/traffic.megaphone.fm/KQINC6716621061.mp3?updated=1712782612","sticky":false,"nprByline":"\u003cstrong>Daniel Potter\u003c/strong>","excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","showOnAuthorArchivePages":"No","articleAge":"0","path":"/news/11644927/eucalyptus-how-californias-most-hated-tree-took-root-2","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a> \u003cem>This article was first published in February 1, 2018, and was updated on April 11, 2024. \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Depending on whom you ask, eucalyptus trees are either an icon in California or a fire-prone scourge.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Bay Curious heard from two hikers wanting to know about the past and future of California’s eucalyptus trees.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003caside class=\"alignleft utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__bayCuriousPodcastShortcode__bayCurious\">\u003cimg src=https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/bayCuriousLogo.png alt=\"Bay Curious Podcast\" />\n \u003ca href=\"/news/series/baycurious\">Bay Curious\u003c/a> is a podcast that answers your questions about the Bay Area.\n Subscribe on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/bay-curious/id1172473406\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Apple Podcasts\u003c/a>,\n \u003ca href=\"http://www.npr.org/podcasts/500557090/bay-curious\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">NPR One\u003c/a> or your favorite podcast platform.\u003c/aside>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“How did all of this eucalyptus get to the Bay Area?” asked Christian Wagner, a tech worker who lives in Pleasanton.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I know that they’re invasive, so what do we do about that? Are they worth keeping around? Or do we need to get rid of them and replace them with something else?” wondered Julie Bergen, an occupational therapist from Alameda.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Reaching heights of more than 100 feet, the main kind of eucalyptus you’re likely to see here is Tasmanian blue gum, eucalyptus globulus. They feature sickle-shaped leaves hanging from high branches, and deciduous bark that is forever peeling from their shaggy trunks. Some people experience the smell of eucalyptus as medicinal; others say the trees just smell like California.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11647124\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-11647124 size-medium\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/news/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS29068_eucalyptusgrove7-800x533.jpg\" alt=\"The trees are deciduous, shedding their bark every year.\" width=\"800\" height=\"533\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS29068_eucalyptusgrove7-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS29068_eucalyptusgrove7-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS29068_eucalyptusgrove7-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS29068_eucalyptusgrove7-1920x1280.jpg 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS29068_eucalyptusgrove7-1180x787.jpg 1180w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS29068_eucalyptusgrove7-960x640.jpg 960w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS29068_eucalyptusgrove7-240x160.jpg 240w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS29068_eucalyptusgrove7-375x250.jpg 375w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS29068_eucalyptusgrove7-520x347.jpg 520w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">The trees are deciduous, shedding their bark every year. \u003ccite>(Samantha Shanahan/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003ch2>So how did eucalyptus trees get here?\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>“They came here as envelopes of seeds on boats coming to California in the 1850s,” explains Jared Farmer, author of \u003ca href=\"https://jaredfarmer.net/books/trees-in-paradise/\">“Trees In Paradise: A California History.”\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>During the Gold Rush, Australians were among the throngs flocking to a place where wood was in short supply.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“This was the era of wood power,” Farmer says. “Wood was used for almost everything. For energy, of course, but also for building every city, for moving things around, all the things where today we use concrete and plastic and steel.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Besides the practical need to plant more trees, settlers who were used to dense forests also felt that the lack of trees in California’s grassy, marshy, scrubby landscape made it feel incomplete. So within a few years, nurseries in San Francisco were selling young eucalyptus grown from seed.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The trees grew remarkably quickly here, even in poor soil.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“In an average rainfall year here in California, these trees probably put on 4 to 6 feet in height and maybe, in their early growth years, a half-inch to an inch in diameter,” says Joe McBride, a UC Berkeley professor emeritus of landscape architecture and environmental planning.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Beyond the drive to change the landscape and provide firewood, Californians also planted eucalyptus (mainly blue gum) to serve as windbreaks.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11647125\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-11647125 size-medium\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/news/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS29071_eucalyptusgrove10-800x533.jpg\" alt=\"Eucalyptus trees grow fast, sometimes putting on four to six feet in height in a single year.\" width=\"800\" height=\"533\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS29071_eucalyptusgrove10-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS29071_eucalyptusgrove10-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS29071_eucalyptusgrove10-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS29071_eucalyptusgrove10-1920x1280.jpg 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS29071_eucalyptusgrove10-1180x787.jpg 1180w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS29071_eucalyptusgrove10-960x640.jpg 960w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS29071_eucalyptusgrove10-240x160.jpg 240w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS29071_eucalyptusgrove10-375x250.jpg 375w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS29071_eucalyptusgrove10-520x347.jpg 520w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Eucalyptus trees grow fast, sometimes putting on 4 to 6 feet in height in a single year. \u003ccite>(Samantha Shanahan/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>In fact, that was the original purpose of what’s now the largest, densest stand of blue gum eucalyptus in the world, on campus at Berkeley, says McBride. It was planted around 140 years ago to provide a windbreak for an old cinder running track — to keep its fine ashen gravel from blowing into athletes’ faces.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The trees’ success in California owed to a lack of enemies here. Because they were grown from seed, they hadn’t brought along any of the pests or pathogens they contend with back in Australia.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>An early 20th century boom\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Within a few decades of its arrival, many Californians grew disenchanted with eucalyptus. Blue gum proved terrible for woodworking — the wood often split and cracked, making it a poor choice for railroad ties. The trees also proved thirsty enough to drain nearby wells.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“If you go back to California farm journals of the 1870s, ’80s, ’90s, there’s just report after report of disappointment, like ‘these trees are no good,’ ” says Farmer, the historian.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But things changed in the early 20th century when U.S. Forest Service officials grew concerned about a looming timber famine. They feared forests in the eastern United States had been overexploited and wouldn’t grow back, and predicted the supply of hardwood would dwindle over the next 15 years.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11647127\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-11647127 size-medium\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/news/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS29072_eucalyptusgrove11-800x533.jpg\" alt=\"The bark sheds often, peeling in large strips.\" width=\"800\" height=\"533\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS29072_eucalyptusgrove11-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS29072_eucalyptusgrove11-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS29072_eucalyptusgrove11-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS29072_eucalyptusgrove11-1920x1280.jpg 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS29072_eucalyptusgrove11-1180x787.jpg 1180w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS29072_eucalyptusgrove11-960x640.jpg 960w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS29072_eucalyptusgrove11-240x160.jpg 240w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS29072_eucalyptusgrove11-375x250.jpg 375w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS29072_eucalyptusgrove11-520x347.jpg 520w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">The bark sheds often, peeling in large strips. \u003ccite>(Samantha Shanahan/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Investors saw an opportunity: California had a tree capable of growing to full size within that time frame. If hardwood was about to be scarce, they reasoned, such trees could be in high demand and yield sizable returns within a few short years.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>These people, Farmer says, were not reading blue gum’s lousy reviews in old farm reports. “And even if they did read them, maybe they wouldn’t care because they just wanted to make a buck; they were just flipping land.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This played out as a speculative frenzy — a bubble. Boosters began selling plantations dense with eucalyptus — hundreds of trees per acre. Farmer writes in his book that claims were made like: “Forests Grown While You Wait,” and “Absolute Security and Absolute Certainty.” In just a few years, millions of blue gums were planted from Southern California up to Mendocino.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The anticipated timber famine never came to pass. Forests further east proved more resilient than expected, and the need was offset by concrete, steel and imports, like mahogany. Ultimately, the thousands of acres of eucalyptus planted around California were not even worth cutting down. Much of what you see today is a century-old abandoned crop.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>What’s fire got to do with it?\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Eucalyptus trees have lovers and haters in California. A big part of the debate over whether the trees should be allowed to persist here traces back to the East Bay firestorm of 1991, which left 25 people dead and thousands homeless. Vast swaths of eucalyptus burned.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“People at the time, I don’t think, associated that with a planted plantation; it was just a eucalyptus forest,” says CalPoly botanist Jenn Yost. “And then when the fire came through — I mean that fire came through so fast and so hot and so many people lost their homes that it was a natural reaction to hate blue gums at that point.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Many experts say that eucalyptus trees worsen the fire threat for a few reasons.\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>The bark they shed dries out quickly and creates fuel.\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>Once a fire starts, that bark easily catches the wind and can be blown miles away, spreading the fire quickly.\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>Eucalyptus trees are really oily. The oil is actually what gives off that intense fragrance they’re known for. But in a fire, that oil also makes them flammable.\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>But Eucalyptus trees have supporters too, who argue other plants in their place would also burn. A few years ago, federal funding to cut down trees in the East Bay hills was \u003ca href=\"http://www.berkeleyside.com/2016/09/19/fema-pulls-funding-for-tree-clearing-in-berkeley-hills/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">rescinded\u003c/a>, after \u003ca href=\"http://www.berkeleyside.com/2015/07/18/in-berkeley-protesters-strip-naked-to-try-to-save-trees/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">protesters\u003c/a> got naked and hugged the eucalyptus trees on campus at Cal. \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">But after a nearly decade-long legal battle, a court gave UC Berkeley the go-ahead to cut. Still, it’s a drop in the bucket when you think about how many of these trees we have in California.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11647123\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\" style=\"max-width: 640px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-large wp-image-11647123\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/news/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS29066_eucalyptusgrove2-1020x1530.jpg\" alt=\"To some, the scent of eucalyptus trees is simply the scent of California.\" width=\"640\" height=\"960\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS29066_eucalyptusgrove2-1020x1530.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS29066_eucalyptusgrove2-160x240.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS29066_eucalyptusgrove2-800x1200.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS29066_eucalyptusgrove2-1920x2880.jpg 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS29066_eucalyptusgrove2-1180x1770.jpg 1180w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS29066_eucalyptusgrove2-960x1440.jpg 960w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS29066_eucalyptusgrove2-240x360.jpg 240w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS29066_eucalyptusgrove2-375x563.jpg 375w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS29066_eucalyptusgrove2-520x780.jpg 520w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 640px) 100vw, 640px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">To some, the scent of eucalyptus trees is simply the scent of California. \u003ccite>(Samantha Shanahan/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003ch2>Are they here to stay?\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Blue gums can’t reproduce on their own just anywhere in California; Yost says they need year-round moisture. They’re able to regenerate in places like California’s coastal fog belt, but elsewhere “there are some plantations that don’t reproduce at all. When you go there, the trees are all in their rows, there’s few saplings anywhere to be seen, and those trees are just getting older.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Not all non-native plants capable of reproducing on their own do it enough to have an ecological impact, Yost says.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“As soon as it starts outcompeting native species or fundamentally changing the environment so that native species can’t grow there, we would consider that an invasive species,” she says.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Blue gum is \u003ca href=\"http://www.cal-ipc.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Cal-IPC_News_Summer2014-6.pdf#page=10\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">classified\u003c/a> as a “moderate” invasive, putting it a \u003ca href=\"http://www.cal-ipc.org/plants/inventory/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">tier\u003c/a> below such uncharismatic weeds as yellow star-thistle and medusahead. McBride, the retired Berkeley professor, says “although there’s been marginal expansion of some eucalyptus stands, it’s really not well adapted for long-distance dispersal. It hasn’t really spread very much on its own.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003caside class=\"alignleft utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__bayCuriousPodcastShortcode__bayCurious\">\u003cimg src=https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/bayCuriousLogo.png alt=\"Bay Curious Podcast\" />\n What do you wonder about the Bay Area, its culture or people that you want KQED to investigate?\n \u003ca href=\"/news/series/baycurious\">Ask Bay Curious.\u003c/a>\u003c/aside>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>With an estimated 40,000 acres of unharvested eucalyptus planted across the state, the trees aren’t easy to get rid of. Slicing down a large blue gum near a building can require a crane, at an expense of thousands of dollars. And keeping them from resprouting can also be its own chore.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Long term, as the climate changes over the coming decades, it’s possible the aging eucalyptus groves that don’t get enough water to reproduce will begin to die.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Then again, if the state becomes \u003ca href=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/science/2015/02/12/new-study-global-warming-will-bring-megadroughts-to-the-west/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">hotter and drier\u003c/a>, it may become the type of place where some Australian species are able to thrive.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"baycuriousquestion","attributes":{"named":{"label":""},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Do you see any koala bears?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Daniel Potter:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> I wish.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>\u003ci>[sound of bark crunching underfoot]\u003c/i>\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Daniel Potter:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Should we tell people where we are?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yeah, so we are at the Mount Sutro Open Space Reserve. Which has gotta be pretty close to the geographic center of San Francisco, would you imagine, right?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Daniel Potter: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I think that’s fair. And we are surrounded by a ton of what look to be ancient eucalyptus trees.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> If you’re not familiar with eucalyptus trees, they’re very tall. How tall would you say those are?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Daniel Potter: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">We’ve seen some today over a hundred feet, for sure.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Definitely. And they have this weird bark, where the underpart of the tree is really smooth but their bark on the outside flakes off.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Daniel Potter:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> It’s deciduous, but it leaves this tan, almost naked-looking trunk behind.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> And these would not be good climbing trees.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Daniel Potter:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Yeah, most of the branches, like, what’s the lowest branch on that one? It’s like 30 feet up, how are you gonna climb that?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">One thing I think a lot of people remark about eucalyptus trees in the smell.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>\u003ci>(inhale, exhale)\u003c/i>\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Daniel Potter: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Some people hate it. But a couple people I talked to for this story—they say these trees just smell like California.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Which is pretty weird for a tree from Australia! \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>\u003ci>Theme music\u003c/i>\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> I’m Olivia Allen-Price, and this is Bay Curious, where we answer your questions about the Bay Area. On this episode, science writer Daniel Potter and I take a closer look at Eucalyptus Trees.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Daniel Potter: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">They have lovers—and haters.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And there are giant stands of them throughout our region. This story first ran in 2018, but your questions about eucalyptus trees have kept on coming! So we thought it was time to freshen up this episode with some new information. We’ll get to it right after this.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>\u003ci>Sponsor Message\u003c/i>\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Alright! Let’s get to this week’s question, shall we? Or should I say \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">QUESTIONS\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> because we heard from two different listeners on this one…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christian Wagner:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> How did all of this eucalyptus get to the Bay Area?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">That’s Christian Wagner. He’s noticed lots of eucalyptus trees as he’s out and about because he likes hiking.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Daniel Potter:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> –as does Julie Bergen.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Bergen:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And I know that they’re invasive, so what do we do about that? Are they worth keeping around? Or do we need to get rid of them and replace them with something else?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Christian and Julie both wonder about eucalyptus’ past—and its future here. Some people argue the trees are bad for \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">native\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> plant life—and a fire hazard—and need to go. So. Science writer Daniel Potter!\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Daniel Potter:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Howdy.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Where do we begin unraveling this one?\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Daniel Potter:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> In a forest. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>\u003ci>Albany Hill outdoor ambi\u003c/i>\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Daniel Potter:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Let’s start with one on Albany Hill in the East Bay. You can see it from I-80, near the racetrack. That’s where I talked to this guy…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jared Farmer: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">My name is Jared Farmer, I’m a professor of history at Stony Brook University, and the author of \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Trees In Paradise: A California History\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Daniel Potter: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">That book includes a solid hundred pages on eucalyptus trees in California, so I asked Farmer how they got here:\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jared Farmer: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">They came here as envelopes of seeds on boats in the 1850s.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Daniel Potter: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">He says the Gold Rush drew people from all over—including from Australia. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Sea shanty music …“In South Australia I was born, heed away all the way”\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Daniel Potter: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And they were coming to a place where wood was in short supply. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jared Farmer: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">What we think of today as like say native California, Indigenous California, or pre-contact California was far more woody than wooded. Actually it was far more land that was chaparral and savanna and wetland and marshland than timberland…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Daniel Potter:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> People settling here wanted to plant trees. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">If you’re used to trees, the California landscape might feel… incomplete without them. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Daniel Potter:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> And then there were the practical concerns, since Californians were quickly downing what trees \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">were \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">here.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jared Farmer: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">This was course just the era of wood power—wood was used for almost everything. For energy of course but also for building every city, for moving things around, all the things today we use concrete and plastic and steel.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Daniel Potter: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So by the 1850s you could buy young eucalyptus in nurseries in San Francisco. It was grown here from seed, which meant it didn’t bring along any of the usual bugs or pathogens it faces back home. The lack of pests made it easy for these trees to grow really tall, really fast.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>\u003ci>(Berkeley outdoor ambi)\u003c/i>\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Joe McBride:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> I would say in an average rainfall year here in California, these trees probably put on four to six feet in height.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Daniel Potter: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">This is Joe McBride, professor emeritus of landscape architecture and environmental planning at UC Berkeley. I met him in a towering stand of ancient eucalyptus on campus.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Joe McBride: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">These trees are now over 200 feet tall, and the largest ones are approaching six feet in diameter.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Daniel Potter: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Near the present-day Life Sciences building there used to be a cinder running track—picture fine ashen gravel. A hundred and forty years ago \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">…\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> at a fabled track meet with Stanford … supposedly the wind was so bad it blew cinder in everyone’s faces and the Stanford coach took his team home—track meet \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">over\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Joe McBride:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> As a result of that, the campus planted this grove of eucalyptus trees as a windbreak, to prevent the wind from blowing the cinders into other athletes eyes in the future. This is the largest, densest stand of blue gum eucalyptus in the world.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Tell us what that is— blue gum eucalyptus…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Daniel Potter:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> So, the genus eucalyptus includes hundreds of species—some more like shrubs than giant trees. A lot were tried out here, but the main one today is Tasmanian blue gum, eucalyptus globulus. Side note: apparently even botanists can’t always tell what species they’re looking at without climbing way up to check out the fruit… \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So for a time these trees were planted on purpose – but many people came to hate them. What changed?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jared Farmer:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> If you go back to California farm journals of the 1870s, 80s, 90s, there’s report after report of disappointment, like these trees are no good.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Daniel Potter: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">That’s Jared Farmer, the historian again. It turns out while our blue gum gets tall real fast, it’s not ideal for woodworking—it splits and cracks and doesn’t hold up if you’re making railroad ties. It also sucks up a lot of water, which is handy if you’re trying to drain swampland, but less handy if your well is nearby. People were kinda over it. Until!\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Joe McBride: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">At the turn of the 20\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">th\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> century, we were faced with a crisis in terms of hardwood forest that had been cut over in the eastern United States.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Daniel Potter: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">In 1907, the U.S. Forest Service predicted a looming hardwood famine. People thought there was only about a 15-year supply before we ran out of usable forest. That gave eucalyptus boosters an idea: plant now, and fast-growing blue gums could be big enough to harvest once the famine hits.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Joe McBride: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Here in the Bay Area, for $100 you could buy an acre of land… planting those trees on 6 by 6 spacing, about 1,200 trees per acre. So they sold lots of these on a speculative basis.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Daniel Potter: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">This became a frenzy—a bubble. Companies suckered investors with claims like \u003c/span>\u003cb>\u003ci>“\u003c/i>\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Forests Grown While You Wait” and “Absolute Security and Absolute Certainty.” Within a few years, thousands of acres were bought up and planted with eucalyptus, from Southern California up to Mendocino.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Wait, didn’t we just say blue gum was terrible for woodworking? Why was everyone still planting it?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Daniel Potter:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> In his book, Farmer gives a few reasons: blue gum was familiar, seeds were everywhere, it could grow in lousy soil—plus a blend of historical ignorance and artful deception.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jared Farmer:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> In part because these people were not reading farm reports from the 1870s and 1880s, and even if they did read them maybe they wouldn’t care because they just wanted to make a buck, they were just flipping land.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Daniel Potter: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Fears of a hardwood famine ultimately proved overblown. Concrete and steel became cheaper, forests further east recovered, and people started making furniture from imported wood like mahogany instead. California’s eucalyptus trees weren’t even worth cutting down—so there they stand. They’re like century-old abandoned crops. Farmer describes their presence here as a beautiful mistake. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">That brings us to the second half of this week’s question from Julie and Christian:\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Bergen: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I know that they’re invasive, so what do we do about that?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christian Wagner: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">To what extent is it sort of here to stay?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Daniel Potter:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> I took this question to Jenn Yost, a botanist at CalPoly. While some people see California’s eucalyptus trees as a heinous invasive species and want them gone, Yost was careful to delineate between \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">non-native\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">—which these trees definitely are—and \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">invasive\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jenn Yost:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Just because something reproduces a little bit, sometimes it doesn’t do it enough where it has an ecological impact. And as soon as it starts outcompeting native species or fundamentally changing the environment so that native species can’t grow there, we would consider that an invasive species.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Daniel Potter: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">While many kinds of eucalyptus have been tried out in California, only \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">two\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> are good enough at reproducing here to be considered \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">invasive\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">: the red gum and the blue gum. And those don’t seem able to reproduce just \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">anywhere\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">. In some drier parts of the state, the old plantations aren’t spreading.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jenn Yost:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> You see blue gums being weedy and really reproducing on their own in areas that have summer moisture, and that’s usually in the form of fog. Or you see them being weedy in places with year-round water, like irrigation ditches or places with seeps.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Daniel Potter:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Blue gum is classified as a “moderate invasive.” Compared to other, faster-moving weeds, it’s not California’s most-wanted ravaging the countryside. Yost attributes a lot of the current resentment to the historic 1991 fire in the East Bay hills, where tons of eucalyptus burned.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jenn Yost:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> People at the time I don’t think associated that with a planted plantation; it was just a eucalyptus forest. And then when the fire came through—I mean that fire came through so fast and so hot and so many people lost their homes that it was a natural reaction to hate blue gums at that point.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Archival tape: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Pushed by 30 mile per hour winds, fire swept down the Oakland Berkeley hills destroying everything in its path.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The East Bay Hills fire was hugely devastating… 25 people died and thousands were left homeless. Many experts say that eucalyptus trees worsen the fire threat for a few reasons… The bark they shed dries out quickly and creates fuel…a lot of fuel. Once a fire starts, that bark easily catches the wind and can be blown miles away, spreading the fire quickly. Also: Eucalyptus trees are really oily. The oil is actually what gives off that intense fragrance they’re known for. But in a fire, that oil also makes them flammable.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Daniel Potter:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Other folks argue different plants in their place would also burn. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">This is an entrenched debate! A few years ago there was federal fire-prevention funding to cut down trees in those same hills, and people protested. Folks got naked and hugged the blue gums on campus at Berkeley. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> But after a nearly decade-long legal battle, a court gave UC Berkeley the go-ahead to cut down dozens of acres of Eucalyptus last year. Still, it’s a drop in the bucket when you think about how many of these trees we have in California.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Daniel Potter: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yost estimates there’s something like 40 thousand acres of unharvested crops in the state. It’s not hard to extrapolate upwards of ten million trees statewide. Cutting each one down takes time and money.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So really the question of whether eucalyptus is going away comes down to who’s backyard it’s in. Can they afford to cut the trees down? Is the political will there to do it? \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So that’s where things are. What did our question askers think? Christian and Julie.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Bergen:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">That was absolutely fascinating. I did not know that the history was even that rich.\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Christian Wagner: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I have to say I love the idea that a lot of what we see was a get-rich-quick scheme. Because that is just a theme that happens so often in America and in California.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So often to our detriment. Science Writer Daniel Potter, thanks for stomping around so many forests for us this week. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Daniel Potter: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Happy to do it!\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">A note: A few of the sources quoted in his story have changed jobs since they were first interviewed in 2018.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">If you’ve ever wondered what all goes into making a Bay Curious story sound the way it does … join producer Katrina Schwartz and I TONIGHT, April 11 for our talk: Elevating Audio Stories with Sound for the PRX Podcast Garage. We’ll be talking through how we use music, sound effects, archival material, narration and more to bring the Bay Curious podcast to life. Join us in person at KQED’s Headquarters, or on the livestream. Tickets are free if you use the code “baycurious.” Grab yours at \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"http://kqed.org/podcast\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">kqed.org/podcastgarage\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Bay Curious is made by Katrina Schwartz, Christopher Beale, and me, Olivia-Allen Price. Additional support from Jen Chien, Katie Sprenger, Cesar Saldana, Maha Sanad, Holly Kernan and the whole KQED Family. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christian Wagner:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Bay Curious is made in San Francisco at KQED. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"floatright"},"numeric":["floatright"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I’m Olivia Allen-Price. Have a great week!\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11644927/eucalyptus-how-californias-most-hated-tree-took-root-2","authors":["byline_news_11644927"],"programs":["news_33523","news_6944"],"series":["news_17986"],"categories":["news_19906","news_33520","news_356"],"tags":["news_20023"],"featImg":"news_11647129","label":"source_news_11644927"},"news_11981665":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11981665","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"news","id":"11981665","score":null,"sort":[1712224818000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"climate-change-induced-heatwaves-are-devastating-californias-kelp-and-abalone","title":"California's Beloved Abalone Sea Snails Are Struggling. Here's Why","publishDate":1712224818,"format":"standard","headTitle":"California’s Beloved Abalone Sea Snails Are Struggling. Here’s Why | KQED","labelTerm":{},"content":"\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">View the full episode transcript.\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The beaches of Northern California can be treasure troves for keen-eyed visitors. Surrounded by grass-covered cliffs and dramatic rocky outcrops, walkers can often find seashells, driftwood and other riches on the cool, wet sand.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When Bay Curious listener Lorraine Page moved to Pescadero about 30 years ago, she spent a lot of time hunting for such treasures at the beach. A family doctor by day, beachcombing was her way to unwind.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[baycuriouspodcastinfo]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>While she came across all sorts of treasures, she was looking for one thing in particular: abalone shells. For her, finding one of those beautiful, iridescent mollusks signified a day well spent on a Northern California beach. \u003ca href=\"https://www.montereybayaquarium.org/animals/animals-a-to-z/abalone\">Abalone are mollusks, essentially sea snails\u003c/a> that can grow up to 10 inches in diameter.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If she was especially lucky, Page might even find what are called \u003ci>pearls\u003c/i> attached to the outside of an abalone shell.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The abalone makes this pearl to try to protect the shell,” she said. “And it’s beautiful.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If the abalone perceives a threat, like a parasite, it surrounds it with nacre, also known as mother-of-pearl, to wall off the intruder. Over eight to 10 years, a beautiful iridescent pearl forms on the abalone shell.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When Page found \u003ca href=\"https://www.purepearls.com/pages/pearl-types-abalone-pearls\">one of these rare wild beauties\u003c/a>, she brought it to a jeweler in Pescadero, who turned it into one-of-a-kind necklaces or earrings.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But over time, Page stopped finding them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It used to be consistent. At certain beaches in Pescadero, you’d find abalone shells,” she said. “And now I just can’t. They’re not around anymore.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She hasn’t found a whole abalone shell in over 10 years.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>Abalone’s long history\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11976838\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11976838\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240220-ABALONE-64-BL-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240220-ABALONE-64-BL-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240220-ABALONE-64-BL-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240220-ABALONE-64-BL-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240220-ABALONE-64-BL-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240220-ABALONE-64-BL-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240220-ABALONE-64-BL-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Doug Jung holds a red abalone shell, or a trophy as they are called, at his home in Santa Rosa on Feb. 20, 2024. A friend gave the shell to him after his house burned down and he lost all of his belongings in the Tubbs Fire. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Abalone has lived off of California’s coastline for \u003ca href=\"https://caseagrant.ucsd.edu/news/abalone-the-story-of-a-treasured-mollusk-on-the-california-coast\">at least 70 million years\u003c/a>. The ancient mollusk has always held deep meaning for Northern Californians, going back to the very first humans who lived here.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“When humans came to California, they started using abalone right away — initially for food, but soon thereafter also for tools,” said Ann Vileisis, an environmental historian and author of the book \u003ca href=\"https://osupress.oregonstate.edu/index.php/book/abalone\">\u003ci>Abalone: The Remarkable History and Uncertain Future of California’s Iconic Shellfish\u003c/i>.\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Indigenous people also used abalone shells for decoration and ceremonial purposes. During ceremonial dances, people wore beautifully elaborate regalia with abalone shells prominently displayed. They not only looked beautiful, Vileisis said, but they also added an incredible clacking sound, which helped to bring the dance to life.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But when European settlers arrived on the West Coast, they started treating abalone like a commodity to be traded and sold.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the late 18th century, Spanish settlers traded abalone shells for sea otter fur as part of the Pacific fur trade.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Then, in the mid-to-late-19th century, Chinese and Japanese immigrants — who were familiar with abalone, being from the other side of the Pacific Ocean — began shipping dried abalone and shells back to China and Japan, where they were used in soups and congees.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“That was actually probably among the first California global trades,” Vileisis said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This was also a time of extreme racism and xenophobia in the U.S. In 1882, Congress passed the \u003ca href=\"https://www.archives.gov/milestone-documents/chinese-exclusion-act#:~:text=The%20Chinese%20Exclusion%20Act%20was,Arthur.\">Chinese Exclusion Act\u003c/a>, which barred Chinese immigrants from entering the U.S. And in1913, the California legislature passed a ban on exporting abalone, allegedly due to concerns over overfishing, though today it is largely seen as a racist law meant to target the growing prosperity of Chinese and Japanese fishermen.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But abalone fishing didn’t stop. And in fact, over time, more and more Americans developed a culinary appreciation for California’s iconic sea snail.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It is absolutely the best thing you can ever eat,” said Doug Jung, a Santa Rosa resident and former abalone diver. “There was nothing I’d rather eat than abalone. I mean, it was just so good.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11976836\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11976836\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240220-ABALONE-61-BL-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"Man in checked shirt and sun hat stands in front of a truck with a boat loaded in the back.\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240220-ABALONE-61-BL-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240220-ABALONE-61-BL-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240220-ABALONE-61-BL-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240220-ABALONE-61-BL-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240220-ABALONE-61-BL-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240220-ABALONE-61-BL-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Doug Jung stands next to his boat in front of his home in Santa Rosa on Feb. 20, 2024. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Jung’s favorite way to cook abalone is to tenderize it with a wooden mallet, cover it with flour, then throw it in a wok and deep fry it for about six minutes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s crunchy on the outside, and you can cut it with a fork easily,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Beyond feasting on abalone, diving for it became a way of life for Jung. He learned when he was in high school.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s the adventure,” he said. “Every time you go out, when you come back, you say, ‘Cheated death one more time.'”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Abalone diving is one of the most dangerous kinds of sport fishing. It’s illegal to use scuba gear to dive for abalone due to concerns of overfishing. So, while holding their breath, divers have to dive down to the ocean floor or navigate rocky outcrops, scrape off the abalone without harming them, and then swim back up to the surface. And if that weren’t enough, they also must avoid getting tangled in kelp and encounters with other sea creatures. An octopus almost drowned Jung one time, he said. But despite the risks, for Jung, diving for abalone was totally worth it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“This was my passion,” he said. “More than anything else, abalone diving was my absolute passion.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11976837\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11976837\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240220-ABALONE-63-BL-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240220-ABALONE-63-BL-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240220-ABALONE-63-BL-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240220-ABALONE-63-BL-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240220-ABALONE-63-BL-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240220-ABALONE-63-BL-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240220-ABALONE-63-BL-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Photos of Doug Jung with friends and family during and after abalone dives hang on the wall of his home in Santa Rosa on Feb. 20, 2024. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>Where are all the abalone?\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Just like Lorraine Page, our question-asker, Jung has also noticed the decline in abalone. In fact, he’s not even allowed to dive for them anymore because they are now considered critically endangered.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Around 2014, a big climate change-driven marine heatwave hit the coast of Northern California. The increased water temperature impacted sea life in all kinds of ways, most notably killing much of the local kelp forest. And since kelp is a staple food source for many sea animals, other oceanic species, like abalone, also died off in large numbers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At the same time, the Northern California sea star population was hit hard by a disease called \u003ca href=\"https://www.nps.gov/im/swan/ssws.htm\">wasting syndrome\u003c/a>. The warmer marine temperatures made the sea stars more susceptible to the disease and also allowed the disease to proliferate more quickly. Sea stars are predators of sea urchins, so when the sea stars started to decline, purple urchins thrived. And purple urchins devour kelp. The booming urchin population ultimately ate through more than 95% of Northern California’s coastal kelp, causing a near-total kelp forest collapse.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Without the kelp, millions of red abalone — Northern California’s native species — died of starvation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“When I go out there and dive, it makes me cry because the only thing I see is urchin barrens,” Jung said. “This is a horror for us who understood the beauty of what we lost.”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>Hope for another abalone species\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Red abalone isn’t the only type of abalone facing potential extinction in California. In fact, all west coast abalone species are \u003ca href=\"https://www.ucdavis.edu/climate/news/all-west-coast-abalone-added-endangered-iucns-red-list\">listed\u003c/a> as critically endangered or endangered \u003ca href=\"https://www.iucnredlist.org/\">on the International Union for Conservation of Nature’s Red List of Threatened Species\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Enter the UC Davis Bodega Marine Lab white abalone captive breeding program.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11976835\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11976835\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240220-ABALONE-47-BL-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240220-ABALONE-47-BL-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240220-ABALONE-47-BL-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240220-ABALONE-47-BL-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240220-ABALONE-47-BL-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240220-ABALONE-47-BL-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240220-ABALONE-47-BL-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Alyssa Frederick, director of the White Abalone Captive Breeding Program, poses for a portrait at the UC Davis-Bodega Marine Laboratory in Bodega Bay on Feb. 20, 2024. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>The program started over a decade ago when scientists realized that white abalone populations had gotten so low they couldn’t reproduce in the wild anymore. Native to Southern California, the white abalone lives in deep water, but in the 1960s–1970s, as soon as diving technology allowed for deeper water fishing, humans overfished them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Scientists have been working to breed white abalone in captivity under controlled conditions in order to release them into the wild and hopefully jump-start reproduction in the wild again.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The spawns — where they induce breeding between male and female abalone — are exciting events that only happen once a year. I visited the lab just days after the most recent one.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11976831\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11976831\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240220-ABALONE-10-BL-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240220-ABALONE-10-BL-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240220-ABALONE-10-BL-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240220-ABALONE-10-BL-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240220-ABALONE-10-BL-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240220-ABALONE-10-BL-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240220-ABALONE-10-BL-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Alyssa Frederick, director of the White Abalone Captive Breeding Program, points to a group of white abalone in a lab at the UC Davis-Bodega Marine Laboratory in Bodega Bay on Feb. 20, 2024. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“We had 6.7 million eggs last week,” said Alyssa Frederick, director of the lab’s white abalone captive breeding program. “It was the largest spawn we’ve had in the program since 2019. I was really excited.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A ton of planning and coordination goes into a spawn, Frederick said. The abalone basically sits in buckets of chemicals, mostly hydrogen peroxide, which causes a cascade of hormones in their bodies that tell them it’s time to spawn.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Abalone are broadcast spawners, meaning they release their eggs and sperm into the water column and form larvae from there.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I was literally pacing my living room like someone waiting in a maternity ward for someone to give birth,” Frederick said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Currently, the program releases about 5,000 abalone into the wild per year. In order to save the species, models show they need to be releasing twice that amount.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We still are an order of magnitude below what’s required to save the species,” Frederick said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11976832\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11976832\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240220-ABALONE-25-BL-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240220-ABALONE-25-BL-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240220-ABALONE-25-BL-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240220-ABALONE-25-BL-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240220-ABALONE-25-BL-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240220-ABALONE-25-BL-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240220-ABALONE-25-BL-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Alyssa Frederick, director of the White Abalone Captive Breeding Program, holds a white abalone at the UC Davis-Bodega Marine Laboratory in Bodega Bay on Feb. 20, 2024. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>‘Double whammy’ for red abalone\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>The white abalone captive breeding program holds promise for the future of that species. As for red abalone, the situation is more complicated.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“In white abalone, you have lots of nice habitat,” said Laura Rogers-Bennett, a senior environmental scientist with the California Department of Fish and Wildlife. “You have kelp, you just don’t have white abalone. But red abalone has the double whammy of [needing] kelp \u003ci>and\u003c/i> red abalone.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That’s part of the reason there is no captive breeding program for red abalone.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11981674\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1920px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11981674\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/red-abalone.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1920\" height=\"1440\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/red-abalone.jpg 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/red-abalone-800x600.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/red-abalone-1020x765.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/red-abalone-160x120.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/red-abalone-1536x1152.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1920px) 100vw, 1920px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Abalone in a kelp forest near Mendocino, California, surrounded by dark red algae. \u003ccite>(Lt. John Crofts, NOAA Corps., Public domain, via Wikimedia Commons)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>But there are some programs in place to try to save the kelp and, ultimately, the abalone. For example, since sea urchins are such a scourge on the kelp, state Fish and Wildlife officials have allowed commercial and recreational divers to harvest them in select areas. With fewer sea urchins, Rogers-Bennett said, the kelp might recover.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But the program is still too small to have much impact, Rogers-Bennett said. There are just too many sea urchins. As a lifelong diver and ocean creature enthusiast, she said the work can be discouraging.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“To go back to a spot and see a particular rock that I visited at least once a year for 20 years, and to know that that spot is where there used to be tons of red abalone and to see it just covered with urchin and no algae at all, it’s heartbreaking,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>While there’s certainly no lack of enthusiasm, she said her program needs more financial support if it has a chance of saving the abalone.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Obviously, in red abalone, we have the passion,” she said. “I think there’s a chance that we can create some of these pockets of kelp forest and have them come back in these kelp oases. And that will be the start of restoration areas for the whole coast.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But as human-caused climate change continues to change ecosystems, there’s no telling when the next marine heatwave might hit.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[baycuriousquestion]\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Sounds of ocean waves and seagulls]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b> When Lorraine Page moved to Pescadero in the ’90s, she spent a lot of time at the beach. It was her way to unwind.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lorraine Page: \u003c/b>I’m a family doctor on the coast. So I’m busy. But on, on weekends and such, that would be an outlet for me.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>She would comb the beach and explore the tide pools for hours, looking for one thing in particular: abalone shells.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Magical beach music begins]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Abalone are mollusks… basically big sea snails, up to 10 inches wide, that live off our northern California coastline. You might recognize their shells, which are iridescent… somehow every color of the rainbow all at once.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Lorraine sought them out because sometimes, if she was lucky, on those abalone shells she would find an abalone \u003ci>pearl.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lorraine Page: \u003c/b>They’re these beautiful little pearls that show up in the shell.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>When Lorraine found one, she’d bring it to a jeweler in Pescadero who would polish it up and turn it into a one-of-a-kind necklace or earrings. But over time, Lorraine has stopped finding them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lorraine Page: \u003c/b>It used to be consistent that certain beaches in Pescadero, you’d find abalone shells, and I just can’t. They’re not around anymore.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>She says she hasn’t found a whole abalone shell in more than 10 years.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lorraine Page: \u003c/b>That’s just my simple question is, do we know why there’s not as many abalone?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Bay Curious theme music starts] \u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>I’m Olivia Allen Price and you’re listening to Bay Curious. On today’s episode: what happened to all the abalone? And can we bring them back?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Theme\u003c/i> \u003ci>music ends]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b> Where did all the abalone go? We sent reporter Dana Cronin to find out.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dana Cronin:\u003c/b> Before I get to answering Lorraine’s question, I think we could all use a little history lesson. Because, oh man, do abalone have a long history here in Northern California?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ann Vileisis: \u003c/b>Abalone have lived on the California coast for actually 70 million years, at the very least.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dana Cronin: \u003c/b>Ann Vileisis is an environmental historian who’s authored a whole book on abalone. She says the ancient mollusk has always held deep meaning for us Northern Californians… going back to the \u003ci>very first \u003c/i>humans who lived here.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ann Vileisis: \u003c/b>When humans came to California, they started using abalone right away, initially for food, but soon thereafter also for tools\u003ci>.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dana Cronin: \u003c/b>Indigenous people also used abalone shells for decoration and ceremonial purposes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Sounds of a Pomo Indian dance performance featuring clacking abalone shells]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dana Cronin: \u003c/b>During ceremonial dances, for example… abalone shells were a part of the regalia. They not only looked beautiful — they also added this incredible clacking sound… bringing the dance to life.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But when European settlers arrived on the West Coast, they started treating abalone like a commodity… to be traded and sold.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Music starts]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the late 18th century, Spanish settlers traded abalone shells for sea otter fur as part of the Pacific fur trade.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Then, in the mid-to-late-1800s, Chinese and Japanese immigrants — who were very familiar with abalone being from the other side of the Pacific Ocean — began shipping dried abalone and shells back to China and Japan, where they were used in soups and congees.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ann Vileisis: \u003c/b>That was actually probably one of the, you know, among the first California global trades was in abalone.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dana Cronin: \u003c/b>This was also a time of extreme racism and xenophobia in the U.S., around when Congress passed the Chinese Exclusion Act, which barred Chinese immigrants from entering the U.S.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In 1913, the California legislature passed a ban on exporting abalone, which they \u003ci>said\u003c/i> was due to concerns of overfishing. In reality, the ban was part of the larger anti-immigrant sentiment of the time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Music fades out]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But abalone fishing didn’t stop. And in fact, over time, more and more Americans realized how delicious these sea snails are.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Doug Jung: \u003c/b>It is absolutely the best thing you can ever eat. There was nothing I’d rather eat than abalone. I mean, it was just so good.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dana Cronin: \u003c/b>This is Doug Jung. He lives in Santa Rosa and has been abalone diving up and down the Northern California coast since he was in high school — over 50 years.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He says abalone is naturally buttery and salty… and there’s something about its texture that is totally unique and delicious.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Doug Jung: \u003c/b>We just pound it with a wooden mallet until it’s soft. And then we throw it in a wok for six minutes and deep fry it and it comes out. It doesn’t suck up all the oil. You have it covered with flour and things. So it’s crunchy on the outside. You can cut it with a fork easily.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dana Cronin: \u003c/b>Like, imagine the most tender, melt-in-your-mouth scallop you’ve ever had.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But beyond just eating it… over the years, abalone diving became a way of life for Doug. It was addicting.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Doug Jung: \u003c/b>It’s the adventure. Every time you go out, you know when you come back, you say ‘Cheated death one more time.’”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Music starts]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dana Cronin: \u003c/b>Cheated death one more time because abalone diving is one of the more dangerous sport fishing activities.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That’s because it was illegal to use scuba gear to dive for abalone due to concerns of overfishing. So divers have to dive down to the ocean floor or navigate rocky outcrops — where abalone suction themselves — scrape them off without harming them… and then swim to the surface \u003ci>all in one breath\u003c/i>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Music fades out]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Not to mention avoiding getting tangled in kelp… or encountering other sea critters. Doug tells me about a time he had a run-in with an octopus:\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Doug Jung: \u003c/b>He only had two tentacles on me … but with those two tentacles — and I was in my prime in my 30s — I barely got off those two tentacles before coming up. And, I’m thinking if you had three on, I’d be dead\u003ci>.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dana Cronin: \u003c/b>Doug says, despite the risks, diving for abalone was totally worth it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Doug Jung: \u003c/b>I feel very, very fortunate to be able to experience this because this was my passion. More than anything else, more than inventing new technology, more than going fishing, more than hiking. Going up from the into the Sierras. Abalone diving was my absolute passion.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dana Cronin: \u003c/b>But just like Lorraine, Doug has also noticed the decline in abalone. In fact, he’s not even allowed to dive for abalone anymore, because abalone are now considered critically endangered.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>To understand how we got here, we need to rewind the clock about 10 years.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Music starts]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dana Cronin: \u003c/b>Around 2014, there was a big marine heatwave, driven no doubt by climate change. That heat wave impacted Northern California’s coastline in all kinds of ways. Most notably, killing much of the kelp forest off our coast here. Kelp is the main food source for many ocean species — including, you guessed it, abalone.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The marine heat wave also introduced a disease called wasting syndrome… which wiped out much of the sea star population. Like in any ecosystem, when one species is impacted, other species along the food chain are impacted, too. Sea stars prey on sea urchins. So when the sea stars started to decline, purple urchins were without a predator… and they \u003ci>thrived. \u003c/i>So much so that they ate through more than 95 percent of our coastal kelp… causing a near-total kelp forest collapse.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Music out]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And that’s the root issue here. Because without the kelp, millions of red abalone — the kind that’s native to Northern California — have died due to starvation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Doug Jung: \u003c/b>It’s dead. When I go out there and dive up. It makes me cry because the only thing I see is urchin barrens.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dana Cronin: \u003c/b>While Doug used to dive down and see this lush kelp forest, teeming with fish and snails and sea stars… now, with the kelp mostly gone, it’s almost like a desert landscape, with urchins covering the ocean floor.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Doug Jung: \u003c/b>This is a horror for us. For us who understood the beauty of what we lost.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dana Cronin: \u003c/b>So that’s the sad answer to Lorraine’s question.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But now, you might be wondering: is there hope for the future of abalone?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Rushing mechanical background sound fade in]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dana Cronin: \u003c/b>To answer that question, we’re going to take a tour of the UC Davis Bodega Marine Lab, a facility in Bodega Bay that \u003ci>breeds \u003c/i>abalone.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alyssa Frederick: \u003c/b>When we’re doing spawning, what we do is we’ll take an animal out and we’ll check its gonads.\u003ci> \u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dana Cronin: \u003c/b>This is Alyssa Frederick. She directs the white abalone \u003ci>captive breeding program\u003c/i> here at the lab.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She holds up a five-year-old female abalone.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alyssa Frederick: \u003c/b>So they have two eyes on stocks and then they also have their like antenna. That’s curled up underneath. One’s curled up underneath, and one’s right here. Yeah. Pretty cute.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dana Cronin: \u003c/b>We’re in a lab holding room full of tanks housing abalone of all ages and sizes. This little lady, in particular, looks like a giant, oval-shaped snail with a big shell that sits flat across her back. Her two eyes are like tentacles, feeling their way around.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The spawns — where they induce breeding between the male and female abalone — are a really big deal. They only happen once a year, and I’m visiting just days after the most recent one.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alyssa Frederick: \u003c/b>We had 6.7 million eggs last week. It was the largest spawn we’ve had in the program since 2019. I was really excited.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Music starts]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dana Cronin: \u003c/b>A lot of planning and coordination goes into a spawn. The abalone basically sit in buckets of chemicals, namely hydrogen peroxide, which causes a cascade of hormones in their bodies that tell them it’s time to spawn.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Alyssa says they set the mood — so to speak — in other ways too.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alyssa Frederick: \u003c/b>We had the lights off for most of it. We did it in the evening, which, like abalone, are more active in the evening. So my line of thinking is that why not stack the odds in our favor and do it then?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dana Cronin: \u003c/b>Abalone are broadcast spawners, meaning they release their eggs and sperm into the water column and form larvae from there.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Alyssa says it’s an intense process.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alyssa Frederick:\u003c/b> I mean, the joke, like, I was literally pacing my living room like someone waiting in a maternity ward for someone to give birth\u003ci>.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Music fade out]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dana Cronin: \u003c/b>On the day I’m visiting, the little baby abalone are starting to settle, which means they have to flip themselves over and find a place to settle on the bottom of the tank.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>We watch them through a microscope:\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alyssa Frederick: \u003c/b>Wee! Aww. So cute. Dancing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dana Cronin: \u003c/b>Now it’s important to note that these are \u003ci>white \u003c/i>abalone. Remember the ones we’ve mostly been talking about so far are red abalone… which are native to \u003ci>Northern\u003c/i> California.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>White abalone were more common down in southern California. However, in the ‘60s and ‘70s, as soon as diving technology allowed us to fish deeper water species, we overfished them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alyssa Frederick: \u003c/b>So we overfished, over 99% of what was out in the wild. It was pretty significant. Like, pretty much all of them.\u003ci> \u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dana Cronin: \u003c/b>White abalone was the first marine invertebrate species to be listed on the Endangered Species Act. There were so few left they weren’t able to reproduce in the wild anymore.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So scientists decided to bring some into captivity, have them reproduce in safe, controlled conditions, and then release them into the wild. They release them when they’re about a year old by placing them in these small cages on the ocean floor and opening up the door.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The goal is to create enough of them out in the wild that they start reproducing on their own.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Right now, they’re releasing about five thousand abalone into the wild per year. In order to save the species, models show they need to be releasing twice that amount.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alyssa Frederick: \u003c/b>Right now we still are an order of magnitude below what’s required to save the species.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dana Cronin: \u003c/b>But, she says, they’re also an order of magnitude \u003ci>above\u003c/i> where they started.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Music starts]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So there’s some hope for white abalone.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>As for our red abalone here in Northern California… the situation is more complicated.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Laura Rogers-Bennett: \u003c/b>I think the red abalone problem is more difficult.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dana Cronin: \u003c/b>This is Laura Rogers-Bennett, a senior environmental scientist with the California Department of Fish and Wildlife. She also works at the Bodega Marine Lab and specializes in \u003ci>red\u003c/i> abalone.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She says while white abalone struggle in numbers, they at least have a healthy kelp forest to return to down south.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Laura Rogers-Bennett:\u003c/b> Red abalone has the double whammy of you need kelp. And you need red abalone\u003ci>.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dana Cronin: \u003c/b>Without kelp, red abalone don’t have a home to return to. And that makes captive breeding — and reintroduction — a lot harder. That’s part of the reason there is no captive breeding program for red abalone.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>They are doing some things, though, to try to bring back the kelp and, ultimately, the abalone.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>For example, they’ve identified a few areas off the coast where they allow divers to go out and harvest sea urchins to try to get the kelp to grow back.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Laura Rogers-Bennett: \u003c/b>So far they haven’t been that successful in terms of bringing back the kelp.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dana Cronin: \u003c/b>There are also captive breeding programs for sea stars, which aim to reintroduce them back into the ecosystem to keep the urchin at bay.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It’s definitely an uphill battle. As someone who has done this work for a long time, Laura says it’s emotionally draining.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Laura Rogers-Bennett: \u003c/b>To go back to a spot and see a particular rock, that I visited, at least once a year for 20 years. And to know that that spot is where there’s tons used to be tons of red abalone and to see it just covered with urchin and no algae at all. It’s heartbreaking.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dana Cronin: \u003c/b>But she’s committed to trying. Trying to get the kelp forest to grow back, trying to recoup the abalone we’ve lost over the last decade. And she hopes the findings from the captive breeding program will help along the way.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Laura Rogers-Bennett: \u003c/b>Obviously, in red abalone, we have the passion. I think there’s a chance that we can create some of these pockets of kelp forest. Have them come back in these kelp oases. And, that will be the start of restoration areas for the whole coast.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dana Cronin: \u003c/b>If that happens, we could look forward to a future where Lorraine Page, our question-asker, can beach comb again for abalone pearls. And Doug can revive his long lost hobby; diving down, wrestling octopi along the way, in search of his favorite sea snail.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Music fades out along with the sound of crashing waves]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b> That story was reported by KQED’s Dana Cronin. Big thanks to Lorraine Page for asking the question.\u003cb>\u003ci>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/i>\u003c/b>\u003cb>\u003ci>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/i>\u003c/b>The North Coast Journal provided the sound of abalone clacking during ceremonial dances for our use in this episode.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If you’ve ever wondered what all goes into making a Bay Curious story sound the way it does … join producer Katrina Schwartz and I on April 11 for \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/podcasts/1000/apr-11-600pm-elevating-audio-stories-with-sound-ft-bay-curious\">our talk at the PRX Podcast Garage\u003c/a>. We’re calling it \u003cb>Elevating Audio Stories with Sound\u003c/b> and it’s all about how we make this show with a small but mighty team. We’ll be talking through how we use music, sound effects, archival material, narration and more to bring the Bay Curious podcast to life. Join us in person at KQED’s Headquarters or on the livestream. Tickets are free if you use the code “baycurious” that’s all one word. Grab yours at \u003ca href=\"http://kqed.org/podcastgarage\">kqed.org/podcastgarage\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Bay Curious is made in San Francisco at member-supported KQED.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Bay Curious is made by Katrina Schwartz, Christopher Beale and me, Olivia Allen-Price. Additional support from Jen Chien, Katie Sprenger, Cesar Saldana, Maha Sanad, Holly Kernan and the whole KQED Family.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I’m Olivia Allen-Price. Have a great week!\u003c/p>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"Northern California beachcombers in places like Pescadero and Mendocino find abalone shells much less often than they used to. Climate change is threatening the red abalone population.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1712184048,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":true,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":167,"wordCount":5012},"headData":{"title":"California's Beloved Abalone Sea Snails Are Struggling. Here's Why | KQED","description":"Northern California beachcombers in places like Pescadero and Mendocino find abalone shells much less often than they used to. Climate change is threatening the red abalone population.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":""},"source":"Bay Curious","sourceUrl":"https://www.kqed.org/podcasts/baycurious/","audioUrl":"https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/pdst.fm/e/chrt.fm/track/G6C7C3/traffic.megaphone.fm/KQINC4462577464.mp3?updated=1712176893","sticky":false,"excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","articleAge":"0","path":"/news/11981665/climate-change-induced-heatwaves-are-devastating-californias-kelp-and-abalone","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">View the full episode transcript.\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The beaches of Northern California can be treasure troves for keen-eyed visitors. Surrounded by grass-covered cliffs and dramatic rocky outcrops, walkers can often find seashells, driftwood and other riches on the cool, wet sand.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When Bay Curious listener Lorraine Page moved to Pescadero about 30 years ago, she spent a lot of time hunting for such treasures at the beach. A family doctor by day, beachcombing was her way to unwind.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003caside class=\"alignleft utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__bayCuriousPodcastShortcode__bayCurious\">\u003cimg src=https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/bayCuriousLogo.png alt=\"Bay Curious Podcast\" />\n \u003ca href=\"/news/series/baycurious\">Bay Curious\u003c/a> is a podcast that answers your questions about the Bay Area.\n Subscribe on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/bay-curious/id1172473406\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Apple Podcasts\u003c/a>,\n \u003ca href=\"http://www.npr.org/podcasts/500557090/bay-curious\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">NPR One\u003c/a> or your favorite podcast platform.\u003c/aside>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>While she came across all sorts of treasures, she was looking for one thing in particular: abalone shells. For her, finding one of those beautiful, iridescent mollusks signified a day well spent on a Northern California beach. \u003ca href=\"https://www.montereybayaquarium.org/animals/animals-a-to-z/abalone\">Abalone are mollusks, essentially sea snails\u003c/a> that can grow up to 10 inches in diameter.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If she was especially lucky, Page might even find what are called \u003ci>pearls\u003c/i> attached to the outside of an abalone shell.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The abalone makes this pearl to try to protect the shell,” she said. “And it’s beautiful.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If the abalone perceives a threat, like a parasite, it surrounds it with nacre, also known as mother-of-pearl, to wall off the intruder. Over eight to 10 years, a beautiful iridescent pearl forms on the abalone shell.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When Page found \u003ca href=\"https://www.purepearls.com/pages/pearl-types-abalone-pearls\">one of these rare wild beauties\u003c/a>, she brought it to a jeweler in Pescadero, who turned it into one-of-a-kind necklaces or earrings.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But over time, Page stopped finding them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It used to be consistent. At certain beaches in Pescadero, you’d find abalone shells,” she said. “And now I just can’t. They’re not around anymore.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She hasn’t found a whole abalone shell in over 10 years.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>Abalone’s long history\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11976838\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11976838\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240220-ABALONE-64-BL-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240220-ABALONE-64-BL-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240220-ABALONE-64-BL-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240220-ABALONE-64-BL-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240220-ABALONE-64-BL-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240220-ABALONE-64-BL-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240220-ABALONE-64-BL-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Doug Jung holds a red abalone shell, or a trophy as they are called, at his home in Santa Rosa on Feb. 20, 2024. A friend gave the shell to him after his house burned down and he lost all of his belongings in the Tubbs Fire. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Abalone has lived off of California’s coastline for \u003ca href=\"https://caseagrant.ucsd.edu/news/abalone-the-story-of-a-treasured-mollusk-on-the-california-coast\">at least 70 million years\u003c/a>. The ancient mollusk has always held deep meaning for Northern Californians, going back to the very first humans who lived here.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“When humans came to California, they started using abalone right away — initially for food, but soon thereafter also for tools,” said Ann Vileisis, an environmental historian and author of the book \u003ca href=\"https://osupress.oregonstate.edu/index.php/book/abalone\">\u003ci>Abalone: The Remarkable History and Uncertain Future of California’s Iconic Shellfish\u003c/i>.\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Indigenous people also used abalone shells for decoration and ceremonial purposes. During ceremonial dances, people wore beautifully elaborate regalia with abalone shells prominently displayed. They not only looked beautiful, Vileisis said, but they also added an incredible clacking sound, which helped to bring the dance to life.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But when European settlers arrived on the West Coast, they started treating abalone like a commodity to be traded and sold.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the late 18th century, Spanish settlers traded abalone shells for sea otter fur as part of the Pacific fur trade.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Then, in the mid-to-late-19th century, Chinese and Japanese immigrants — who were familiar with abalone, being from the other side of the Pacific Ocean — began shipping dried abalone and shells back to China and Japan, where they were used in soups and congees.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“That was actually probably among the first California global trades,” Vileisis said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This was also a time of extreme racism and xenophobia in the U.S. In 1882, Congress passed the \u003ca href=\"https://www.archives.gov/milestone-documents/chinese-exclusion-act#:~:text=The%20Chinese%20Exclusion%20Act%20was,Arthur.\">Chinese Exclusion Act\u003c/a>, which barred Chinese immigrants from entering the U.S. And in1913, the California legislature passed a ban on exporting abalone, allegedly due to concerns over overfishing, though today it is largely seen as a racist law meant to target the growing prosperity of Chinese and Japanese fishermen.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But abalone fishing didn’t stop. And in fact, over time, more and more Americans developed a culinary appreciation for California’s iconic sea snail.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It is absolutely the best thing you can ever eat,” said Doug Jung, a Santa Rosa resident and former abalone diver. “There was nothing I’d rather eat than abalone. I mean, it was just so good.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11976836\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11976836\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240220-ABALONE-61-BL-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"Man in checked shirt and sun hat stands in front of a truck with a boat loaded in the back.\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240220-ABALONE-61-BL-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240220-ABALONE-61-BL-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240220-ABALONE-61-BL-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240220-ABALONE-61-BL-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240220-ABALONE-61-BL-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240220-ABALONE-61-BL-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Doug Jung stands next to his boat in front of his home in Santa Rosa on Feb. 20, 2024. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Jung’s favorite way to cook abalone is to tenderize it with a wooden mallet, cover it with flour, then throw it in a wok and deep fry it for about six minutes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s crunchy on the outside, and you can cut it with a fork easily,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Beyond feasting on abalone, diving for it became a way of life for Jung. He learned when he was in high school.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s the adventure,” he said. “Every time you go out, when you come back, you say, ‘Cheated death one more time.'”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Abalone diving is one of the most dangerous kinds of sport fishing. It’s illegal to use scuba gear to dive for abalone due to concerns of overfishing. So, while holding their breath, divers have to dive down to the ocean floor or navigate rocky outcrops, scrape off the abalone without harming them, and then swim back up to the surface. And if that weren’t enough, they also must avoid getting tangled in kelp and encounters with other sea creatures. An octopus almost drowned Jung one time, he said. But despite the risks, for Jung, diving for abalone was totally worth it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“This was my passion,” he said. “More than anything else, abalone diving was my absolute passion.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11976837\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11976837\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240220-ABALONE-63-BL-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240220-ABALONE-63-BL-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240220-ABALONE-63-BL-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240220-ABALONE-63-BL-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240220-ABALONE-63-BL-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240220-ABALONE-63-BL-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240220-ABALONE-63-BL-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Photos of Doug Jung with friends and family during and after abalone dives hang on the wall of his home in Santa Rosa on Feb. 20, 2024. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>Where are all the abalone?\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Just like Lorraine Page, our question-asker, Jung has also noticed the decline in abalone. In fact, he’s not even allowed to dive for them anymore because they are now considered critically endangered.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Around 2014, a big climate change-driven marine heatwave hit the coast of Northern California. The increased water temperature impacted sea life in all kinds of ways, most notably killing much of the local kelp forest. And since kelp is a staple food source for many sea animals, other oceanic species, like abalone, also died off in large numbers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At the same time, the Northern California sea star population was hit hard by a disease called \u003ca href=\"https://www.nps.gov/im/swan/ssws.htm\">wasting syndrome\u003c/a>. The warmer marine temperatures made the sea stars more susceptible to the disease and also allowed the disease to proliferate more quickly. Sea stars are predators of sea urchins, so when the sea stars started to decline, purple urchins thrived. And purple urchins devour kelp. The booming urchin population ultimately ate through more than 95% of Northern California’s coastal kelp, causing a near-total kelp forest collapse.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Without the kelp, millions of red abalone — Northern California’s native species — died of starvation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“When I go out there and dive, it makes me cry because the only thing I see is urchin barrens,” Jung said. “This is a horror for us who understood the beauty of what we lost.”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>Hope for another abalone species\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Red abalone isn’t the only type of abalone facing potential extinction in California. In fact, all west coast abalone species are \u003ca href=\"https://www.ucdavis.edu/climate/news/all-west-coast-abalone-added-endangered-iucns-red-list\">listed\u003c/a> as critically endangered or endangered \u003ca href=\"https://www.iucnredlist.org/\">on the International Union for Conservation of Nature’s Red List of Threatened Species\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Enter the UC Davis Bodega Marine Lab white abalone captive breeding program.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11976835\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11976835\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240220-ABALONE-47-BL-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240220-ABALONE-47-BL-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240220-ABALONE-47-BL-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240220-ABALONE-47-BL-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240220-ABALONE-47-BL-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240220-ABALONE-47-BL-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240220-ABALONE-47-BL-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Alyssa Frederick, director of the White Abalone Captive Breeding Program, poses for a portrait at the UC Davis-Bodega Marine Laboratory in Bodega Bay on Feb. 20, 2024. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>The program started over a decade ago when scientists realized that white abalone populations had gotten so low they couldn’t reproduce in the wild anymore. Native to Southern California, the white abalone lives in deep water, but in the 1960s–1970s, as soon as diving technology allowed for deeper water fishing, humans overfished them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Scientists have been working to breed white abalone in captivity under controlled conditions in order to release them into the wild and hopefully jump-start reproduction in the wild again.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The spawns — where they induce breeding between male and female abalone — are exciting events that only happen once a year. I visited the lab just days after the most recent one.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11976831\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11976831\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240220-ABALONE-10-BL-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240220-ABALONE-10-BL-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240220-ABALONE-10-BL-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240220-ABALONE-10-BL-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240220-ABALONE-10-BL-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240220-ABALONE-10-BL-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240220-ABALONE-10-BL-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Alyssa Frederick, director of the White Abalone Captive Breeding Program, points to a group of white abalone in a lab at the UC Davis-Bodega Marine Laboratory in Bodega Bay on Feb. 20, 2024. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“We had 6.7 million eggs last week,” said Alyssa Frederick, director of the lab’s white abalone captive breeding program. “It was the largest spawn we’ve had in the program since 2019. I was really excited.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A ton of planning and coordination goes into a spawn, Frederick said. The abalone basically sits in buckets of chemicals, mostly hydrogen peroxide, which causes a cascade of hormones in their bodies that tell them it’s time to spawn.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Abalone are broadcast spawners, meaning they release their eggs and sperm into the water column and form larvae from there.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I was literally pacing my living room like someone waiting in a maternity ward for someone to give birth,” Frederick said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Currently, the program releases about 5,000 abalone into the wild per year. In order to save the species, models show they need to be releasing twice that amount.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We still are an order of magnitude below what’s required to save the species,” Frederick said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11976832\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11976832\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240220-ABALONE-25-BL-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240220-ABALONE-25-BL-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240220-ABALONE-25-BL-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240220-ABALONE-25-BL-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240220-ABALONE-25-BL-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240220-ABALONE-25-BL-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240220-ABALONE-25-BL-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Alyssa Frederick, director of the White Abalone Captive Breeding Program, holds a white abalone at the UC Davis-Bodega Marine Laboratory in Bodega Bay on Feb. 20, 2024. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>‘Double whammy’ for red abalone\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>The white abalone captive breeding program holds promise for the future of that species. As for red abalone, the situation is more complicated.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“In white abalone, you have lots of nice habitat,” said Laura Rogers-Bennett, a senior environmental scientist with the California Department of Fish and Wildlife. “You have kelp, you just don’t have white abalone. But red abalone has the double whammy of [needing] kelp \u003ci>and\u003c/i> red abalone.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That’s part of the reason there is no captive breeding program for red abalone.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11981674\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1920px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11981674\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/red-abalone.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1920\" height=\"1440\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/red-abalone.jpg 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/red-abalone-800x600.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/red-abalone-1020x765.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/red-abalone-160x120.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/red-abalone-1536x1152.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1920px) 100vw, 1920px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Abalone in a kelp forest near Mendocino, California, surrounded by dark red algae. \u003ccite>(Lt. John Crofts, NOAA Corps., Public domain, via Wikimedia Commons)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>But there are some programs in place to try to save the kelp and, ultimately, the abalone. For example, since sea urchins are such a scourge on the kelp, state Fish and Wildlife officials have allowed commercial and recreational divers to harvest them in select areas. With fewer sea urchins, Rogers-Bennett said, the kelp might recover.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But the program is still too small to have much impact, Rogers-Bennett said. There are just too many sea urchins. As a lifelong diver and ocean creature enthusiast, she said the work can be discouraging.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“To go back to a spot and see a particular rock that I visited at least once a year for 20 years, and to know that that spot is where there used to be tons of red abalone and to see it just covered with urchin and no algae at all, it’s heartbreaking,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>While there’s certainly no lack of enthusiasm, she said her program needs more financial support if it has a chance of saving the abalone.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Obviously, in red abalone, we have the passion,” she said. “I think there’s a chance that we can create some of these pockets of kelp forest and have them come back in these kelp oases. And that will be the start of restoration areas for the whole coast.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But as human-caused climate change continues to change ecosystems, there’s no telling when the next marine heatwave might hit.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"baycuriousquestion","attributes":{"named":{"label":""},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Sounds of ocean waves and seagulls]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b> When Lorraine Page moved to Pescadero in the ’90s, she spent a lot of time at the beach. It was her way to unwind.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lorraine Page: \u003c/b>I’m a family doctor on the coast. So I’m busy. But on, on weekends and such, that would be an outlet for me.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>She would comb the beach and explore the tide pools for hours, looking for one thing in particular: abalone shells.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Magical beach music begins]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Abalone are mollusks… basically big sea snails, up to 10 inches wide, that live off our northern California coastline. You might recognize their shells, which are iridescent… somehow every color of the rainbow all at once.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Lorraine sought them out because sometimes, if she was lucky, on those abalone shells she would find an abalone \u003ci>pearl.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lorraine Page: \u003c/b>They’re these beautiful little pearls that show up in the shell.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>When Lorraine found one, she’d bring it to a jeweler in Pescadero who would polish it up and turn it into a one-of-a-kind necklace or earrings. But over time, Lorraine has stopped finding them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lorraine Page: \u003c/b>It used to be consistent that certain beaches in Pescadero, you’d find abalone shells, and I just can’t. They’re not around anymore.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>She says she hasn’t found a whole abalone shell in more than 10 years.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lorraine Page: \u003c/b>That’s just my simple question is, do we know why there’s not as many abalone?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Bay Curious theme music starts] \u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>I’m Olivia Allen Price and you’re listening to Bay Curious. On today’s episode: what happened to all the abalone? And can we bring them back?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Theme\u003c/i> \u003ci>music ends]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b> Where did all the abalone go? We sent reporter Dana Cronin to find out.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dana Cronin:\u003c/b> Before I get to answering Lorraine’s question, I think we could all use a little history lesson. Because, oh man, do abalone have a long history here in Northern California?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ann Vileisis: \u003c/b>Abalone have lived on the California coast for actually 70 million years, at the very least.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dana Cronin: \u003c/b>Ann Vileisis is an environmental historian who’s authored a whole book on abalone. She says the ancient mollusk has always held deep meaning for us Northern Californians… going back to the \u003ci>very first \u003c/i>humans who lived here.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ann Vileisis: \u003c/b>When humans came to California, they started using abalone right away, initially for food, but soon thereafter also for tools\u003ci>.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dana Cronin: \u003c/b>Indigenous people also used abalone shells for decoration and ceremonial purposes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Sounds of a Pomo Indian dance performance featuring clacking abalone shells]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dana Cronin: \u003c/b>During ceremonial dances, for example… abalone shells were a part of the regalia. They not only looked beautiful — they also added this incredible clacking sound… bringing the dance to life.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But when European settlers arrived on the West Coast, they started treating abalone like a commodity… to be traded and sold.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Music starts]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the late 18th century, Spanish settlers traded abalone shells for sea otter fur as part of the Pacific fur trade.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Then, in the mid-to-late-1800s, Chinese and Japanese immigrants — who were very familiar with abalone being from the other side of the Pacific Ocean — began shipping dried abalone and shells back to China and Japan, where they were used in soups and congees.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ann Vileisis: \u003c/b>That was actually probably one of the, you know, among the first California global trades was in abalone.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dana Cronin: \u003c/b>This was also a time of extreme racism and xenophobia in the U.S., around when Congress passed the Chinese Exclusion Act, which barred Chinese immigrants from entering the U.S.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In 1913, the California legislature passed a ban on exporting abalone, which they \u003ci>said\u003c/i> was due to concerns of overfishing. In reality, the ban was part of the larger anti-immigrant sentiment of the time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Music fades out]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But abalone fishing didn’t stop. And in fact, over time, more and more Americans realized how delicious these sea snails are.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Doug Jung: \u003c/b>It is absolutely the best thing you can ever eat. There was nothing I’d rather eat than abalone. I mean, it was just so good.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dana Cronin: \u003c/b>This is Doug Jung. He lives in Santa Rosa and has been abalone diving up and down the Northern California coast since he was in high school — over 50 years.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He says abalone is naturally buttery and salty… and there’s something about its texture that is totally unique and delicious.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Doug Jung: \u003c/b>We just pound it with a wooden mallet until it’s soft. And then we throw it in a wok for six minutes and deep fry it and it comes out. It doesn’t suck up all the oil. You have it covered with flour and things. So it’s crunchy on the outside. You can cut it with a fork easily.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dana Cronin: \u003c/b>Like, imagine the most tender, melt-in-your-mouth scallop you’ve ever had.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But beyond just eating it… over the years, abalone diving became a way of life for Doug. It was addicting.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Doug Jung: \u003c/b>It’s the adventure. Every time you go out, you know when you come back, you say ‘Cheated death one more time.’”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Music starts]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dana Cronin: \u003c/b>Cheated death one more time because abalone diving is one of the more dangerous sport fishing activities.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That’s because it was illegal to use scuba gear to dive for abalone due to concerns of overfishing. So divers have to dive down to the ocean floor or navigate rocky outcrops — where abalone suction themselves — scrape them off without harming them… and then swim to the surface \u003ci>all in one breath\u003c/i>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Music fades out]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Not to mention avoiding getting tangled in kelp… or encountering other sea critters. Doug tells me about a time he had a run-in with an octopus:\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Doug Jung: \u003c/b>He only had two tentacles on me … but with those two tentacles — and I was in my prime in my 30s — I barely got off those two tentacles before coming up. And, I’m thinking if you had three on, I’d be dead\u003ci>.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dana Cronin: \u003c/b>Doug says, despite the risks, diving for abalone was totally worth it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Doug Jung: \u003c/b>I feel very, very fortunate to be able to experience this because this was my passion. More than anything else, more than inventing new technology, more than going fishing, more than hiking. Going up from the into the Sierras. Abalone diving was my absolute passion.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dana Cronin: \u003c/b>But just like Lorraine, Doug has also noticed the decline in abalone. In fact, he’s not even allowed to dive for abalone anymore, because abalone are now considered critically endangered.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>To understand how we got here, we need to rewind the clock about 10 years.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Music starts]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dana Cronin: \u003c/b>Around 2014, there was a big marine heatwave, driven no doubt by climate change. That heat wave impacted Northern California’s coastline in all kinds of ways. Most notably, killing much of the kelp forest off our coast here. Kelp is the main food source for many ocean species — including, you guessed it, abalone.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The marine heat wave also introduced a disease called wasting syndrome… which wiped out much of the sea star population. Like in any ecosystem, when one species is impacted, other species along the food chain are impacted, too. Sea stars prey on sea urchins. So when the sea stars started to decline, purple urchins were without a predator… and they \u003ci>thrived. \u003c/i>So much so that they ate through more than 95 percent of our coastal kelp… causing a near-total kelp forest collapse.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Music out]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And that’s the root issue here. Because without the kelp, millions of red abalone — the kind that’s native to Northern California — have died due to starvation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Doug Jung: \u003c/b>It’s dead. When I go out there and dive up. It makes me cry because the only thing I see is urchin barrens.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dana Cronin: \u003c/b>While Doug used to dive down and see this lush kelp forest, teeming with fish and snails and sea stars… now, with the kelp mostly gone, it’s almost like a desert landscape, with urchins covering the ocean floor.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Doug Jung: \u003c/b>This is a horror for us. For us who understood the beauty of what we lost.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dana Cronin: \u003c/b>So that’s the sad answer to Lorraine’s question.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But now, you might be wondering: is there hope for the future of abalone?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Rushing mechanical background sound fade in]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dana Cronin: \u003c/b>To answer that question, we’re going to take a tour of the UC Davis Bodega Marine Lab, a facility in Bodega Bay that \u003ci>breeds \u003c/i>abalone.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alyssa Frederick: \u003c/b>When we’re doing spawning, what we do is we’ll take an animal out and we’ll check its gonads.\u003ci> \u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dana Cronin: \u003c/b>This is Alyssa Frederick. She directs the white abalone \u003ci>captive breeding program\u003c/i> here at the lab.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She holds up a five-year-old female abalone.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alyssa Frederick: \u003c/b>So they have two eyes on stocks and then they also have their like antenna. That’s curled up underneath. One’s curled up underneath, and one’s right here. Yeah. Pretty cute.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dana Cronin: \u003c/b>We’re in a lab holding room full of tanks housing abalone of all ages and sizes. This little lady, in particular, looks like a giant, oval-shaped snail with a big shell that sits flat across her back. Her two eyes are like tentacles, feeling their way around.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The spawns — where they induce breeding between the male and female abalone — are a really big deal. They only happen once a year, and I’m visiting just days after the most recent one.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alyssa Frederick: \u003c/b>We had 6.7 million eggs last week. It was the largest spawn we’ve had in the program since 2019. I was really excited.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Music starts]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dana Cronin: \u003c/b>A lot of planning and coordination goes into a spawn. The abalone basically sit in buckets of chemicals, namely hydrogen peroxide, which causes a cascade of hormones in their bodies that tell them it’s time to spawn.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Alyssa says they set the mood — so to speak — in other ways too.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alyssa Frederick: \u003c/b>We had the lights off for most of it. We did it in the evening, which, like abalone, are more active in the evening. So my line of thinking is that why not stack the odds in our favor and do it then?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dana Cronin: \u003c/b>Abalone are broadcast spawners, meaning they release their eggs and sperm into the water column and form larvae from there.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Alyssa says it’s an intense process.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alyssa Frederick:\u003c/b> I mean, the joke, like, I was literally pacing my living room like someone waiting in a maternity ward for someone to give birth\u003ci>.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Music fade out]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dana Cronin: \u003c/b>On the day I’m visiting, the little baby abalone are starting to settle, which means they have to flip themselves over and find a place to settle on the bottom of the tank.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>We watch them through a microscope:\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alyssa Frederick: \u003c/b>Wee! Aww. So cute. Dancing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dana Cronin: \u003c/b>Now it’s important to note that these are \u003ci>white \u003c/i>abalone. Remember the ones we’ve mostly been talking about so far are red abalone… which are native to \u003ci>Northern\u003c/i> California.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>White abalone were more common down in southern California. However, in the ‘60s and ‘70s, as soon as diving technology allowed us to fish deeper water species, we overfished them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alyssa Frederick: \u003c/b>So we overfished, over 99% of what was out in the wild. It was pretty significant. Like, pretty much all of them.\u003ci> \u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dana Cronin: \u003c/b>White abalone was the first marine invertebrate species to be listed on the Endangered Species Act. There were so few left they weren’t able to reproduce in the wild anymore.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So scientists decided to bring some into captivity, have them reproduce in safe, controlled conditions, and then release them into the wild. They release them when they’re about a year old by placing them in these small cages on the ocean floor and opening up the door.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The goal is to create enough of them out in the wild that they start reproducing on their own.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Right now, they’re releasing about five thousand abalone into the wild per year. In order to save the species, models show they need to be releasing twice that amount.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alyssa Frederick: \u003c/b>Right now we still are an order of magnitude below what’s required to save the species.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dana Cronin: \u003c/b>But, she says, they’re also an order of magnitude \u003ci>above\u003c/i> where they started.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Music starts]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So there’s some hope for white abalone.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>As for our red abalone here in Northern California… the situation is more complicated.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Laura Rogers-Bennett: \u003c/b>I think the red abalone problem is more difficult.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dana Cronin: \u003c/b>This is Laura Rogers-Bennett, a senior environmental scientist with the California Department of Fish and Wildlife. She also works at the Bodega Marine Lab and specializes in \u003ci>red\u003c/i> abalone.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She says while white abalone struggle in numbers, they at least have a healthy kelp forest to return to down south.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Laura Rogers-Bennett:\u003c/b> Red abalone has the double whammy of you need kelp. And you need red abalone\u003ci>.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dana Cronin: \u003c/b>Without kelp, red abalone don’t have a home to return to. And that makes captive breeding — and reintroduction — a lot harder. That’s part of the reason there is no captive breeding program for red abalone.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>They are doing some things, though, to try to bring back the kelp and, ultimately, the abalone.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>For example, they’ve identified a few areas off the coast where they allow divers to go out and harvest sea urchins to try to get the kelp to grow back.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Laura Rogers-Bennett: \u003c/b>So far they haven’t been that successful in terms of bringing back the kelp.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dana Cronin: \u003c/b>There are also captive breeding programs for sea stars, which aim to reintroduce them back into the ecosystem to keep the urchin at bay.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It’s definitely an uphill battle. As someone who has done this work for a long time, Laura says it’s emotionally draining.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Laura Rogers-Bennett: \u003c/b>To go back to a spot and see a particular rock, that I visited, at least once a year for 20 years. And to know that that spot is where there’s tons used to be tons of red abalone and to see it just covered with urchin and no algae at all. It’s heartbreaking.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dana Cronin: \u003c/b>But she’s committed to trying. Trying to get the kelp forest to grow back, trying to recoup the abalone we’ve lost over the last decade. And she hopes the findings from the captive breeding program will help along the way.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Laura Rogers-Bennett: \u003c/b>Obviously, in red abalone, we have the passion. I think there’s a chance that we can create some of these pockets of kelp forest. Have them come back in these kelp oases. And, that will be the start of restoration areas for the whole coast.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dana Cronin: \u003c/b>If that happens, we could look forward to a future where Lorraine Page, our question-asker, can beach comb again for abalone pearls. And Doug can revive his long lost hobby; diving down, wrestling octopi along the way, in search of his favorite sea snail.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Music fades out along with the sound of crashing waves]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b> That story was reported by KQED’s Dana Cronin. Big thanks to Lorraine Page for asking the question.\u003cb>\u003ci>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/i>\u003c/b>\u003cb>\u003ci>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/i>\u003c/b>The North Coast Journal provided the sound of abalone clacking during ceremonial dances for our use in this episode.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If you’ve ever wondered what all goes into making a Bay Curious story sound the way it does … join producer Katrina Schwartz and I on April 11 for \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/podcasts/1000/apr-11-600pm-elevating-audio-stories-with-sound-ft-bay-curious\">our talk at the PRX Podcast Garage\u003c/a>. We’re calling it \u003cb>Elevating Audio Stories with Sound\u003c/b> and it’s all about how we make this show with a small but mighty team. We’ll be talking through how we use music, sound effects, archival material, narration and more to bring the Bay Curious podcast to life. Join us in person at KQED’s Headquarters or on the livestream. Tickets are free if you use the code “baycurious” that’s all one word. Grab yours at \u003ca href=\"http://kqed.org/podcastgarage\">kqed.org/podcastgarage\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Bay Curious is made in San Francisco at member-supported KQED.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Bay Curious is made by Katrina Schwartz, Christopher Beale and me, Olivia Allen-Price. Additional support from Jen Chien, Katie Sprenger, Cesar Saldana, Maha Sanad, Holly Kernan and the whole KQED Family.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"floatright"},"numeric":["floatright"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I’m Olivia Allen-Price. Have a great week!\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11981665/climate-change-induced-heatwaves-are-devastating-californias-kelp-and-abalone","authors":["11362"],"programs":["news_33523"],"series":["news_17986"],"categories":["news_31795","news_19906","news_8","news_356"],"tags":["news_33947","news_18008","news_33948"],"featImg":"news_11980414","label":"source_news_11981665"},"news_11980715":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11980715","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"news","id":"11980715","score":null,"sort":[1711620004000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"why-dont-more-bay-area-kids-ride-school-buses","title":"Why Doesn't California Have More School Buses?","publishDate":1711620004,"format":"standard","headTitle":"Why Doesn’t California Have More School Buses? | KQED","labelTerm":{},"content":"\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">View the full episode transcript.\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Weekday mornings are unquestionably hectic for many of us. We’re up early and out the door, headed towards some kind of commute to work. However, adding the responsibility of getting children through that morning routine and to school on time can feel like the day’s biggest accomplishment.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When Jules Winters first moved to the San Francisco Bay Area from the East Coast, she worried that in that morning rush, she’d get stuck behind a school bus stopping every couple of blocks to pick up kids. She knew from experience that it could make her late to work. But, soon, that concern turned to puzzlement because it never happened. Instead, she noticed a lot of traffic jams around schools at drop-off and pick-up times.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[baycuriouspodcastinfo]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Now, I’m not going anywhere near [a] school because of all the parents dropping off their kids,” she says. “Why aren’t there buses taking students to and from school?” she wondered. “Why is that now the obligation of the family? And how do different families accommodate that? Is that equitable?”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch3>It goes back to Proposition 13\u003c/h3>\n\u003cp>Winters isn’t wrong. California has fewer school buses than in other parts of the country. A survey conducted by the Federal Highway Administration found that nationally, almost 40% of school-aged kids ride a school bus. In California, that number is only 8%.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Like so many questions related to school funding and services, the answer to Winters’ question has roots in the passage of Proposition 13, a constitutional amendment that limited how much a homeowner’s property taxes could increase each year. Property taxes were the primary way school districts funded themselves back then.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The restriction of those sources of revenue in 1978 caused more or less a budget crisis,” says Sam Speroni, a doctoral researcher at the UCLA Institute of Transportation Studies and a researcher at San Jose State’s Mineta Transportation Institute. “So in 1982, the state froze its home-to-school transportation budget with only cost of living adjustments, and that stayed in place until 2022.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11980731\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1920px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11980731\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/03/kids-ride-school-bus.jpg\" alt=\"A line of kids boards a yellow school bus.\" width=\"1920\" height=\"1080\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/03/kids-ride-school-bus.jpg 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/03/kids-ride-school-bus-800x450.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/03/kids-ride-school-bus-1020x574.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/03/kids-ride-school-bus-160x90.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/03/kids-ride-school-bus-1536x864.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1920px) 100vw, 1920px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Across the country, about 40% of school-aged kids ride a school bus. In California, that number is closer to 8%. \u003ccite>( Ben Hasty/MediaNews Group/Reading Eagle via Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>In the intervening years, California’s population has grown, including school-aged children, but the transportation budget has largely stayed the same. That has forced districts to shoulder more of the costs associated with providing school buses.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“That leads local districts into really difficult decisions about, ‘do we continue providing buses or do we eliminate in-school-house services that are also super important?’” Speroni says.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Districts are federally mandated to provide buses to certain groups of students, like those who have transportation, as part of their Individualized Education Program (IEP). However, California does not require school districts to offer school transportation to general education students. As the demands on the school budgets have grown, many districts have chosen not to prioritize school bus funding, which is costly.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Buses to serve equity goals\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Low-income families and families of color often travel the furthest to get to school and have the least resources at their disposal. In recognition of that, some Bay Area districts fund a small number of buses to help meet their equity goals.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Berkeley Unified School District assigns elementary students to zones and then places them in schools with an eye toward socioeconomic diversity. The district uses census data on family income and parental education to help it do this. If the student lives further than 1 1/2 miles from their assigned school, the district offers school buses to help them get there.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Over 1,600 students ride the bus in Berkeley, about 18% of the school community.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC4087301904&light=true\" width=\"100%\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Berkeley’s commitment to school buses stems from a legacy of bussing for integration that goes back to 1968. Berkeley was the first sizable city with a large minority population to voluntarily start a two-way bussing program to both bring white students down from the hills and to take Black students up to the hill schools as a way to racially integrate the population of all its schools.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>San Francisco also offers some school buses to general education students. It runs 35 buses for K–8 students each day, with routes that largely start on the southeast side of the city and bring kids to schools further north and west. The district says these routes help provide crucial access to language programs and offer more choices to families living in the southeast. The routes serve 46 schools and about 2,000 kids. Families sign up for the school bus when they enroll their children in elementary school. The routes and applications for spots on the bus are assigned at the educational placement center.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Partnering with public transit agencies\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>While many school districts in the San Francisco Bay Area do not provide dedicated school buses for general education students, they often partner with public transportation systems to help families get kids to school. In San Francisco, school-aged kids ride for free on Muni. SamTrans, serving schools in San Mateo County, offers free rides to low-income students.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Some school districts and public transportation agencies even work together to align schedules. For example, AC Transit, in the East Bay, offers Supplementary Service to School routes designed to align with school bell schedules and to cover the attendance boundaries of certain schools. AC Transit also discounts fares based on income requirements, as does Clipper.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Despite these efforts, according to the Federal Highway Administration survey, only about 2% of California students take public buses to school. In contrast, 68% get a ride in a private vehicle.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch3>Calls for school transportation reform\u003c/h3>\n\u003cp>Recently, there have been calls to reform California’s school transportation system. A 2014 Legislative Analyst’s Office report highlighted how underfunded the program had become and suggested several ways to reform it. In 2022, Newsom pledged state money to fund 60% of the cost of funding school transportation, the largest increase in years. The governor also allocated $1.5 billion in one-time funds to help districts transition to electric school buses.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>State Sen. Nancy Skinner proposed a bill in 2022 that would provide universal access to school transportation for TK–12 public school students in the state. She argued that reliable transportation to school could reduce chronic absenteeism and improve school performance, especially for low-income students whose families more often don’t have cars. An analysis of the Skinner bill found it would cost the state $1.4 billion, which may be why, despite support in the Senate, it didn’t advance.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The high cost of providing school buses, paired with the many demands on a school district’s budget, make changes to school transportation policy a tricky proposition going forward.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[baycuriousquestion]\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>Whenever Bay Curious listener Jules Winters thinks about her childhood growing up in the suburbs of Philadelphia, she thinks of her school bus driver.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jules Winters: \u003c/b>My bus driver was Ted for like, most of my life. This one time, there was a snowstorm that just hit, like out of nowhere, and it was like full-on blizzard. And I remember, like, we had been at school maybe only into like 9:00, and they were like, we got to get you out of here, like, now. And so they called all the buses. And we got on the bus with Ted, and we got stuck in a huge snowdrift on the way home.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>Jules doesn’t remember being scared in that moment, even though it was probably really stressful for Ted. She felt safe. She knew Ted would get her home, he always did.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jules Winters: \u003c/b>I have really good memories of taking the bus. Like, I met my best friend on the bus. She had moved into town over the summer and was just starting in a new school, and it’s kind of like I was the first person that she met.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>So when she moved to California as an adult, Jules quickly noticed there weren’t many school buses moving kids around.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jules Winters: \u003c/b>I think it’s ironic that initially, I was concerned about traffic, with like being stuck behind a bus, because that was what I was used to on the East Coast. Now, it’s like, I’m not going anywhere near that school because of all the parents dropping off their kids.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>I live a half block from a school, and trust me, some of the worst traffic jams happen around school start and end times. Since Jules has such positive memories of riding the bus as a student, it got her wondering.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jules Winters: \u003c/b>Why aren’t there buses taking students to and from school?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>And that led to a whole bunch more questions.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jules Winters: \u003c/b>Why is that now the obligation of the family and how do different families accommodate that? Is that equitable?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>Today on Bay Curious, we’re taking a closer look at how kids get to school, why it matters, and if it’s true that there aren’t as many school buses in California as there are in other places. I’m Olivia Alan Price. Stay with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Sponsor message]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>Today, we’re digging into why you don’t see as many school buses around the Bay area as you might in other parts of the country. And to help answer some of Jules’ questions, we have Bay curious producer and longtime education reporter Katrina Schwartz. Welcome, Katrina.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>Hi, Olivia. I was actually quite excited that we got an education question.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>Yeah, let’s get right into it. Is Jules right? Are there actually fewer school buses here?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>Yes, Jules is correct. She’s actually put her finger on a real discrepancy. So there’s this survey that the Federal Highway Administration does across the country. And when you look nationwide, almost 40% of school-age kids ride a school bus. And that number has been fairly consistent across many decades. But here in California, only 8% of kids ride a school bus to school, which is the lowest in the country.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>Wow. 8%. You know, I wouldn’t have thought it was that low. Although I guess if I think about it, I don’t tend to see school buses very often when I’m out on the roads.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>Right, because they really aren’t that common. In fact, I had a fair amount of trouble finding any kid that rode a school bus until I started asking around in Berkeley, where it is a little bit more common. So, I met Liz Christiano at her house in Berkeley. She actually volunteered to let me come over at this very stressful time in the morning.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Christiano:\u003c/b> Good morning. Welcome, Katrina\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>Getting ready time in order to meet up with her son James and his friend Eli, as they were having breakfast and getting ready to go to the school bus. They are both fourth graders at John Muir Elementary, and they remember the first time that they rode the school bus.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Eli: \u003c/b>It was kind of strange because, like, I didn’t know anybody, but then, like, I got used to it really quickly.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>James: \u003c/b>It wasn’t really scary. I guess it felt weird.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>And they were not entirely positive about the experience but kind of resigned to it. I would say.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Eli: \u003c/b>It was pretty loud. There’s like so many people talking at once. And then the bus driver, like, frequently stops or has to use the radio to tell people to be quiet or to stop using foul language on the bus.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>OK. That tracks. I remember not loving the bus all the time as a student, but I know that my mom appreciated that it meant she didn’t have to drive me to school.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>Yes, I think buses are really more for parents than they are for kids.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Christiano: \u003c/b>My morning would be ridiculously stressful if I had to take him, even though we’re not that far away.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>Liz Christiano says she’s not even sure how she’d manage her morning without the bus.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Christiano: \u003c/b>The getting up and going. Having to manage all of the logistics of getting everywhere and everything on time is just… it’s a lot.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>She has another child who’s younger, who goes to a preschool in Oakland. That school starts at the same time as James’ school. So if she was having to take them both to school, it would be this real logistical hurdle to juggle it all. And so she was just very thankful for the bus.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Christiano: \u003c/b>Having your kid picked up and taken somewhere and then delivered home the amount of life and cognitive space that you get back, I love it. I really love it. The mornings are so much better because of the bus.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>James and Eli normally walk to the school bus together without their parents. It’s about a two-block walk. But this morning, because I was there, a bunch of kids met up and we all walked to the school bus together.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>James: \u003c/b>We’re about to have to go to the bus. Do you want to interview Mia or Micah? they’re also on the bus.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz in scene: \u003c/b>So, Micah, how do you feel about the bus?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Micah: \u003c/b>I like that parents still get to work as much as they want. And it’s just fun to ride in the bus with friends.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz in scene: \u003c/b>What about you, Mia? How do you feel about it?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mia: \u003c/b>I really like it. Because even if you’re late to the bus, all you have to do is run, and he’ll wait for you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz in scene: \u003c/b>He waits for you!\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mia: \u003c/b>Yeah, and he laughs.\u003ci> (giggles)\u003c/i> This is my first year. So I was very nervous on the first day. I wasn’t expecting that my stop would be the first stop on the whole thing and that it would take like 20 minutes to get to school.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz in scene: \u003c/b>Are you annoyed that it takes so long or is it OK?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mia: \u003c/b>It’s OK because then I get to talk to my friends when they get on the bus.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz in scene: \u003c/b>So, is this the bus stop?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Eli: \u003c/b>It’s a very sad bus stop because it has no sign.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>And, pretty soon the bus pulled up. The kids all kind of gave their moms hugs and then got on.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mia: \u003c/b>What we’re trying to say, is the bus is amazing!\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>James: \u003c/b>No, we are not.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>Off they went.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>I mean, it sounds like it’s working out really well for them. Why aren’t there more buses around California if it’s helping out this family so much?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>Yeah. So this all goes back to Proposition 13, which is a constitutional amendment that passed in 1978. And it really limits how much property taxes can increase for homeowners, which is a big deal for school districts because, before Prop. 13, property taxes were the main way that school districts funded themselves. Since then, that burden has shifted more to the state because of Prop. 13.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sam Speroni: \u003c/b>The restriction of those sources of revenue in 1978 caused more or less a budget crisis.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>I talked with Sam Speroni, who is a doctoral student at UCLA studying school transportation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sam Speroni: \u003c/b>So, in 1982, the state froze its home-to-school transportation budget with only cost-of-living adjustments, and that stayed in place until 2022.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>So over the past 40-plus years, California’s population has grown, though. So there’s just this one pot of money that really hasn’t changed that much, and more kids and more need. So, if districts want to offer school buses, they have to kind of shoulder more of the burden to pay for that. And that means tradeoffs. You know, you can’t pay for everything.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sam Speroni: \u003c/b>That leads local districts into really difficult decisions about, do we continue providing busses or do we eliminate in school house services that are also super important?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>Reading support specialist for example, or an extra social worker?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sam Speroni: \u003c/b>And politically, it’s difficult to justify the elimination of teaching staff if school buses can be reduced first.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>Obviously, you said it’s an expensive prospect for school districts to think about doing this, but Berkeley is making a bigger investment than others to keep buses going. Why?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>So it goes back to the history of bussing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Archival tape: \u003c/b>The method is bussing, in itself one of the most controversial issues before boards of education throughout this country. But Berkeley is out to prove that it works.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>You know, in the 1960s and 70s, school buses were one of the primary ways that districts tried to integrate their schools racially. There was a lot of segregation before that, and school bussing was a way of basically moving kids around, mixing them up, taking them to different neighborhoods.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Archival tape: \u003c/b>And with the use of 25 buses, 3,500 elementary children began to commute to and from White and Negro neighborhoods.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>Trish McDermott is the senior communications director for Berkeley Unified, and she told me this history is fundamental to how Berkeley operates today.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Trish McDermott: \u003c/b>In 1968, we integrated our elementary schools, and that really made Berkeley the first larger city in the country with a large minority enrollment to voluntarily desegregate schools. And we did that with our buses.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>And Trish says even in progressive Berkeley, bussing for integration wasn’t always popular.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Trish McDermott: \u003c/b>Big, crowded school board meetings, a lot of pushback.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>They eventually got it done.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Trish McDermott: \u003c/b>It’s change that we’re very proud of, and it really is the legacy of our transportation department as it exists today.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Archival tape: \u003c/b>Oxford is typical of a school in Berkeley’s white middle-class neighborhood. Last year, Oxford student body had one Negro member. Today, 40% of the 325 students are black.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>It’s a progressive district, and they care about creating schools that are diverse and integrated. So, what they do is assign elementary school students to a zone, and then they look at the census for income data and parental education data to assign students to different schools. And then they use school buses to help kids and families get to the school that they were assigned to.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>Berkeley is doing this, but how does that stack up against all the other hundreds of school districts in California?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>Well, it’s important to know that there’s no law in California that requires school districts to provide buses to general education students. So every district kind of looks at its budget and their student population and decides, you know, can we afford to do this or not? Is this where we want to spend our limited resources? You always have to make tradeoffs. So in a rural district, for example, they often prioritize school transportation because the distances are longer. There maybe aren’t any public transportation options for students, and the schools are more spread out. So bussing is sort of essential to getting kids to school.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I will say that every district does need to provide some school busses, because they are federally mandated to transport certain groups of students to school. So if a student has transportation as part of their Individualized Education program, for example, maybe they have a disability or something like that, then they get transportation to school, and that is federally mandated.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>One district that actually does provide school buses for general education kids is San Francisco, which might actually surprise some families in San Francisco because a lot of families have to drive their kids to school or walk them to school or find some other way to get there. But there are a few school buses, 35 buses that the district runs. And again, it is also for equity reasons, largely the routes start on the south side of the city where there’s often more kids. It tends to be like lower-income neighborhoods, and the routes take kids to the west side of the city, and that’s to provide access to language programs, other schools, and basically makes sure that they have access to the rest of the city.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>There must be families who would use bussing if it came to them, and it just doesn’t. What do those people do?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>Well, you know, some kids walk to school if they’re close enough, some kids bike to school. But about two-thirds of California students get a ride to school in a private vehicle. So obviously that’s not great for the environment. And it’s a big ask of families. I mean, plenty of people don’t have cars, so some districts try to help out by partnering with public transportation systems. So in San Francisco, for example, school kids can ride Muni for free. And the district says that every school is served by at least one Muni bus line or train line. In the East Bay. It’s AC transit, and they actually reach out to the school districts around them and try to align their bus schedules to the school. Will start and end times to make it easier for kids to ride.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz in scene:\u003c/b> I’m here at De Anza High School in Richmond. And it’s interesting because, like, all the AC transit buses are waiting here, like school buses. They’re pulled up off the street in this little pick-up zone. And there’s a bunch of kids who came out of school who are waiting around for the buses to leave.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Sound of fare machine beeping]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>About 20 minutes after school let out…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz in scene:\u003c/b> So all the kids are, like, crowded around the door waiting to get on the bus.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Sounds of bus honking and accelerating]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>The bus takes off. And it takes a route through the school boundary zone so that all these kids can get back home. But if there was another patron on the street who wanted to ride, they could easily get on the bus anywhere along the route.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>I mean, I imagine this, you know, really boils down to sort of a problem on the equity front, right? Because, OK, even if parents are able to take their kids to school because of their schedule, that still is going to mean they’re going to have to have a car that’s operational. That requires a certain amount of money. Be up to date on insurance. Or I mean, the other thing to consider is like, that’s going to limit the shift work that perhaps parents could do if they’re going to have to know that they need to be available to take their kid to school at a certain time. That’s a constraint that, especially if you’re living, you know, on a low-income salary, that’s just one more thing that you’re sort of juggling in an already pretty complicated life.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>Yeah, I think it is an equity issue, although it’s a little bit unclear how big of one it is. I mean, obviously any family that has more flexibility and more mobility is going to have more choices. And all the things that you laid out are true. But there are a lot of other factors that make schools unequal in California. So it’s hard to say how much of a difference a school bus would really make to the whole big picture. One thing that Sam Speroni says, though, is that if California as a state wants to even the playing field for families by offering choices about what schools a family might send their kid to, transportation really needs to be part of that conversation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sam Speroni: \u003c/b>Ultimately, you don’t have school choice if you don’t have transportation to those choices.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>And then the other problem that Sam Speroni brought up — this is a national problem — there’s a huge school bus driver shortage.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sam Speroni: \u003c/b>With the buses we already have. We’re struggling to staff them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>The school bus drivers have to have a special commercial driver’s license, which is also what you use for trucking or other types of delivery jobs. And often those jobs pay more. So in this current economy, it’s very hard to retain your school bus drivers. And we’re seeing that even in places that have much more robust bussing, they’re having a lot of trouble staffing their buses.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>Now, given everything you’ve learned, are there likely to be any changes to how many school buses California schools offer?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>I mean, a number of people have flagged this as a problem. It’s an equity issue, as we already talked about. So, State Sen. Nancy Skinner actually introduced a bill in 2022 that would have provided universal school transportation for California public school students. And she did that because she argued that providing dedicated funds for school transportation would actually improve attendance. It would help with chronic absenteeism, and especially for low income students, it could also improve outcomes at school, too. But this bill was estimated to cost the state $1.4 billion. And so it had some support in the state Senate, but ultimately it didn’t advance.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>$1.4 billion is a lot of money. But still, you know, as someone who rode a school bus, I do have a little bit of nostalgia for those big yellow buses. And I find it a little sad that, you know, I have a 3-year-old, and he isn’t likely to ride a bus in California and have that special relationship with his bus driver.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>Yeah, I mean, I definitely got the sense from our question-asker, Jules, that she finds it a bit sad. I mean, she really had a positive experience on the bus and felt like it really created community. And not having them around here in the Bay area seems like just another way that the social fabric is fraying a little bit.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jules Winters: \u003c/b>I guess I’ve always imagined that buses are like a library or a firefighter station or a police station like it’s this community service that is part of the inlaid structure of what makes it a community or what makes it a school for that community. So it just boggles my mind that it’s not part of any of these communities here.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>Well, Katrina Schwartz, thank you so much for bringing the story to us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>You’re welcome. I’m sorry I couldn’t get more cute kids on buses. Apparently, there’s a lot of liability issues with getting on school buses.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>The woes of education reporting.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>Yes. It’s hard.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/b>Big thanks to Jules Winters for asking this week’s question. If you’ve got a question you’d like Bay Curious to take on, head to baycurious.org and fill out our form at the top of the page. While you’re there, vote in our March voting round. Here are the options under consideration.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Voice 1 \u003c/b>Have you noticed all the motels along Lombard Street? I have. Ever since I was a kid, I’ve always wondered why. Can you find out?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Voice 2 \u003c/b>At the San Francisco Opera House, there’s a chandelier high above the orchestra level. How do they change the light bulbs when they burn out?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Voice 3 \u003c/b>San Mateo County has an official shared housing program, which helps people find housing in someone else’s home. How well is it working?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/b>Again, that’s \u003ca href=\"http://www.baycurious.org\">baycurious.org\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"Only about 8% of California public school students ride a school bus, as compared to almost 40% nationwide. The reason goes back to Proposition 13 and school funding reform.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1711649382,"stats":{"hasAudio":true,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":true,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":127,"wordCount":4963},"headData":{"title":"Why Doesn't California Have More School Buses? | KQED","description":"Only about 8% of California public school students ride a school bus, as compared to almost 40% nationwide. The reason goes back to Proposition 13 and school funding reform.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":""},"source":"Bay Curious","sourceUrl":"https://www.kqed.org/podcasts/baycurious/","audioUrl":"https://dcs.megaphone.fm/KQINC4087301904.mp3?key=a940237bee111ba8b944e9e9f85dc9c3&request_event_id=88eeff47-2301-4bb4-8781-4a2db771ad5e","sticky":false,"excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","articleAge":"0","path":"/news/11980715/why-dont-more-bay-area-kids-ride-school-buses","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">View the full episode transcript.\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Weekday mornings are unquestionably hectic for many of us. We’re up early and out the door, headed towards some kind of commute to work. However, adding the responsibility of getting children through that morning routine and to school on time can feel like the day’s biggest accomplishment.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When Jules Winters first moved to the San Francisco Bay Area from the East Coast, she worried that in that morning rush, she’d get stuck behind a school bus stopping every couple of blocks to pick up kids. She knew from experience that it could make her late to work. But, soon, that concern turned to puzzlement because it never happened. Instead, she noticed a lot of traffic jams around schools at drop-off and pick-up times.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003caside class=\"alignleft utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__bayCuriousPodcastShortcode__bayCurious\">\u003cimg src=https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/bayCuriousLogo.png alt=\"Bay Curious Podcast\" />\n \u003ca href=\"/news/series/baycurious\">Bay Curious\u003c/a> is a podcast that answers your questions about the Bay Area.\n Subscribe on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/bay-curious/id1172473406\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Apple Podcasts\u003c/a>,\n \u003ca href=\"http://www.npr.org/podcasts/500557090/bay-curious\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">NPR One\u003c/a> or your favorite podcast platform.\u003c/aside>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Now, I’m not going anywhere near [a] school because of all the parents dropping off their kids,” she says. “Why aren’t there buses taking students to and from school?” she wondered. “Why is that now the obligation of the family? And how do different families accommodate that? Is that equitable?”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch3>It goes back to Proposition 13\u003c/h3>\n\u003cp>Winters isn’t wrong. California has fewer school buses than in other parts of the country. A survey conducted by the Federal Highway Administration found that nationally, almost 40% of school-aged kids ride a school bus. In California, that number is only 8%.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Like so many questions related to school funding and services, the answer to Winters’ question has roots in the passage of Proposition 13, a constitutional amendment that limited how much a homeowner’s property taxes could increase each year. Property taxes were the primary way school districts funded themselves back then.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The restriction of those sources of revenue in 1978 caused more or less a budget crisis,” says Sam Speroni, a doctoral researcher at the UCLA Institute of Transportation Studies and a researcher at San Jose State’s Mineta Transportation Institute. “So in 1982, the state froze its home-to-school transportation budget with only cost of living adjustments, and that stayed in place until 2022.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11980731\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1920px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11980731\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/03/kids-ride-school-bus.jpg\" alt=\"A line of kids boards a yellow school bus.\" width=\"1920\" height=\"1080\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/03/kids-ride-school-bus.jpg 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/03/kids-ride-school-bus-800x450.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/03/kids-ride-school-bus-1020x574.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/03/kids-ride-school-bus-160x90.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/03/kids-ride-school-bus-1536x864.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1920px) 100vw, 1920px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Across the country, about 40% of school-aged kids ride a school bus. In California, that number is closer to 8%. \u003ccite>( Ben Hasty/MediaNews Group/Reading Eagle via Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>In the intervening years, California’s population has grown, including school-aged children, but the transportation budget has largely stayed the same. That has forced districts to shoulder more of the costs associated with providing school buses.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“That leads local districts into really difficult decisions about, ‘do we continue providing buses or do we eliminate in-school-house services that are also super important?’” Speroni says.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Districts are federally mandated to provide buses to certain groups of students, like those who have transportation, as part of their Individualized Education Program (IEP). However, California does not require school districts to offer school transportation to general education students. As the demands on the school budgets have grown, many districts have chosen not to prioritize school bus funding, which is costly.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Buses to serve equity goals\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Low-income families and families of color often travel the furthest to get to school and have the least resources at their disposal. In recognition of that, some Bay Area districts fund a small number of buses to help meet their equity goals.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Berkeley Unified School District assigns elementary students to zones and then places them in schools with an eye toward socioeconomic diversity. The district uses census data on family income and parental education to help it do this. If the student lives further than 1 1/2 miles from their assigned school, the district offers school buses to help them get there.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Over 1,600 students ride the bus in Berkeley, about 18% of the school community.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC4087301904&light=true\" width=\"100%\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Berkeley’s commitment to school buses stems from a legacy of bussing for integration that goes back to 1968. Berkeley was the first sizable city with a large minority population to voluntarily start a two-way bussing program to both bring white students down from the hills and to take Black students up to the hill schools as a way to racially integrate the population of all its schools.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>San Francisco also offers some school buses to general education students. It runs 35 buses for K–8 students each day, with routes that largely start on the southeast side of the city and bring kids to schools further north and west. The district says these routes help provide crucial access to language programs and offer more choices to families living in the southeast. The routes serve 46 schools and about 2,000 kids. Families sign up for the school bus when they enroll their children in elementary school. The routes and applications for spots on the bus are assigned at the educational placement center.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Partnering with public transit agencies\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>While many school districts in the San Francisco Bay Area do not provide dedicated school buses for general education students, they often partner with public transportation systems to help families get kids to school. In San Francisco, school-aged kids ride for free on Muni. SamTrans, serving schools in San Mateo County, offers free rides to low-income students.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Some school districts and public transportation agencies even work together to align schedules. For example, AC Transit, in the East Bay, offers Supplementary Service to School routes designed to align with school bell schedules and to cover the attendance boundaries of certain schools. AC Transit also discounts fares based on income requirements, as does Clipper.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Despite these efforts, according to the Federal Highway Administration survey, only about 2% of California students take public buses to school. In contrast, 68% get a ride in a private vehicle.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch3>Calls for school transportation reform\u003c/h3>\n\u003cp>Recently, there have been calls to reform California’s school transportation system. A 2014 Legislative Analyst’s Office report highlighted how underfunded the program had become and suggested several ways to reform it. In 2022, Newsom pledged state money to fund 60% of the cost of funding school transportation, the largest increase in years. The governor also allocated $1.5 billion in one-time funds to help districts transition to electric school buses.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>State Sen. Nancy Skinner proposed a bill in 2022 that would provide universal access to school transportation for TK–12 public school students in the state. She argued that reliable transportation to school could reduce chronic absenteeism and improve school performance, especially for low-income students whose families more often don’t have cars. An analysis of the Skinner bill found it would cost the state $1.4 billion, which may be why, despite support in the Senate, it didn’t advance.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The high cost of providing school buses, paired with the many demands on a school district’s budget, make changes to school transportation policy a tricky proposition going forward.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"baycuriousquestion","attributes":{"named":{"label":""},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>Whenever Bay Curious listener Jules Winters thinks about her childhood growing up in the suburbs of Philadelphia, she thinks of her school bus driver.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jules Winters: \u003c/b>My bus driver was Ted for like, most of my life. This one time, there was a snowstorm that just hit, like out of nowhere, and it was like full-on blizzard. And I remember, like, we had been at school maybe only into like 9:00, and they were like, we got to get you out of here, like, now. And so they called all the buses. And we got on the bus with Ted, and we got stuck in a huge snowdrift on the way home.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>Jules doesn’t remember being scared in that moment, even though it was probably really stressful for Ted. She felt safe. She knew Ted would get her home, he always did.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jules Winters: \u003c/b>I have really good memories of taking the bus. Like, I met my best friend on the bus. She had moved into town over the summer and was just starting in a new school, and it’s kind of like I was the first person that she met.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>So when she moved to California as an adult, Jules quickly noticed there weren’t many school buses moving kids around.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jules Winters: \u003c/b>I think it’s ironic that initially, I was concerned about traffic, with like being stuck behind a bus, because that was what I was used to on the East Coast. Now, it’s like, I’m not going anywhere near that school because of all the parents dropping off their kids.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>I live a half block from a school, and trust me, some of the worst traffic jams happen around school start and end times. Since Jules has such positive memories of riding the bus as a student, it got her wondering.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jules Winters: \u003c/b>Why aren’t there buses taking students to and from school?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>And that led to a whole bunch more questions.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jules Winters: \u003c/b>Why is that now the obligation of the family and how do different families accommodate that? Is that equitable?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>Today on Bay Curious, we’re taking a closer look at how kids get to school, why it matters, and if it’s true that there aren’t as many school buses in California as there are in other places. I’m Olivia Alan Price. Stay with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Sponsor message]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>Today, we’re digging into why you don’t see as many school buses around the Bay area as you might in other parts of the country. And to help answer some of Jules’ questions, we have Bay curious producer and longtime education reporter Katrina Schwartz. Welcome, Katrina.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>Hi, Olivia. I was actually quite excited that we got an education question.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>Yeah, let’s get right into it. Is Jules right? Are there actually fewer school buses here?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>Yes, Jules is correct. She’s actually put her finger on a real discrepancy. So there’s this survey that the Federal Highway Administration does across the country. And when you look nationwide, almost 40% of school-age kids ride a school bus. And that number has been fairly consistent across many decades. But here in California, only 8% of kids ride a school bus to school, which is the lowest in the country.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>Wow. 8%. You know, I wouldn’t have thought it was that low. Although I guess if I think about it, I don’t tend to see school buses very often when I’m out on the roads.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>Right, because they really aren’t that common. In fact, I had a fair amount of trouble finding any kid that rode a school bus until I started asking around in Berkeley, where it is a little bit more common. So, I met Liz Christiano at her house in Berkeley. She actually volunteered to let me come over at this very stressful time in the morning.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Christiano:\u003c/b> Good morning. Welcome, Katrina\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>Getting ready time in order to meet up with her son James and his friend Eli, as they were having breakfast and getting ready to go to the school bus. They are both fourth graders at John Muir Elementary, and they remember the first time that they rode the school bus.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Eli: \u003c/b>It was kind of strange because, like, I didn’t know anybody, but then, like, I got used to it really quickly.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>James: \u003c/b>It wasn’t really scary. I guess it felt weird.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>And they were not entirely positive about the experience but kind of resigned to it. I would say.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Eli: \u003c/b>It was pretty loud. There’s like so many people talking at once. And then the bus driver, like, frequently stops or has to use the radio to tell people to be quiet or to stop using foul language on the bus.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>OK. That tracks. I remember not loving the bus all the time as a student, but I know that my mom appreciated that it meant she didn’t have to drive me to school.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>Yes, I think buses are really more for parents than they are for kids.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Christiano: \u003c/b>My morning would be ridiculously stressful if I had to take him, even though we’re not that far away.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>Liz Christiano says she’s not even sure how she’d manage her morning without the bus.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Christiano: \u003c/b>The getting up and going. Having to manage all of the logistics of getting everywhere and everything on time is just… it’s a lot.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>She has another child who’s younger, who goes to a preschool in Oakland. That school starts at the same time as James’ school. So if she was having to take them both to school, it would be this real logistical hurdle to juggle it all. And so she was just very thankful for the bus.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Christiano: \u003c/b>Having your kid picked up and taken somewhere and then delivered home the amount of life and cognitive space that you get back, I love it. I really love it. The mornings are so much better because of the bus.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>James and Eli normally walk to the school bus together without their parents. It’s about a two-block walk. But this morning, because I was there, a bunch of kids met up and we all walked to the school bus together.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>James: \u003c/b>We’re about to have to go to the bus. Do you want to interview Mia or Micah? they’re also on the bus.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz in scene: \u003c/b>So, Micah, how do you feel about the bus?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Micah: \u003c/b>I like that parents still get to work as much as they want. And it’s just fun to ride in the bus with friends.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz in scene: \u003c/b>What about you, Mia? How do you feel about it?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mia: \u003c/b>I really like it. Because even if you’re late to the bus, all you have to do is run, and he’ll wait for you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz in scene: \u003c/b>He waits for you!\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mia: \u003c/b>Yeah, and he laughs.\u003ci> (giggles)\u003c/i> This is my first year. So I was very nervous on the first day. I wasn’t expecting that my stop would be the first stop on the whole thing and that it would take like 20 minutes to get to school.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz in scene: \u003c/b>Are you annoyed that it takes so long or is it OK?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mia: \u003c/b>It’s OK because then I get to talk to my friends when they get on the bus.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz in scene: \u003c/b>So, is this the bus stop?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Eli: \u003c/b>It’s a very sad bus stop because it has no sign.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>And, pretty soon the bus pulled up. The kids all kind of gave their moms hugs and then got on.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mia: \u003c/b>What we’re trying to say, is the bus is amazing!\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>James: \u003c/b>No, we are not.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>Off they went.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>I mean, it sounds like it’s working out really well for them. Why aren’t there more buses around California if it’s helping out this family so much?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>Yeah. So this all goes back to Proposition 13, which is a constitutional amendment that passed in 1978. And it really limits how much property taxes can increase for homeowners, which is a big deal for school districts because, before Prop. 13, property taxes were the main way that school districts funded themselves. Since then, that burden has shifted more to the state because of Prop. 13.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sam Speroni: \u003c/b>The restriction of those sources of revenue in 1978 caused more or less a budget crisis.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>I talked with Sam Speroni, who is a doctoral student at UCLA studying school transportation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sam Speroni: \u003c/b>So, in 1982, the state froze its home-to-school transportation budget with only cost-of-living adjustments, and that stayed in place until 2022.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>So over the past 40-plus years, California’s population has grown, though. So there’s just this one pot of money that really hasn’t changed that much, and more kids and more need. So, if districts want to offer school buses, they have to kind of shoulder more of the burden to pay for that. And that means tradeoffs. You know, you can’t pay for everything.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sam Speroni: \u003c/b>That leads local districts into really difficult decisions about, do we continue providing busses or do we eliminate in school house services that are also super important?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>Reading support specialist for example, or an extra social worker?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sam Speroni: \u003c/b>And politically, it’s difficult to justify the elimination of teaching staff if school buses can be reduced first.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>Obviously, you said it’s an expensive prospect for school districts to think about doing this, but Berkeley is making a bigger investment than others to keep buses going. Why?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>So it goes back to the history of bussing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Archival tape: \u003c/b>The method is bussing, in itself one of the most controversial issues before boards of education throughout this country. But Berkeley is out to prove that it works.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>You know, in the 1960s and 70s, school buses were one of the primary ways that districts tried to integrate their schools racially. There was a lot of segregation before that, and school bussing was a way of basically moving kids around, mixing them up, taking them to different neighborhoods.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Archival tape: \u003c/b>And with the use of 25 buses, 3,500 elementary children began to commute to and from White and Negro neighborhoods.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>Trish McDermott is the senior communications director for Berkeley Unified, and she told me this history is fundamental to how Berkeley operates today.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Trish McDermott: \u003c/b>In 1968, we integrated our elementary schools, and that really made Berkeley the first larger city in the country with a large minority enrollment to voluntarily desegregate schools. And we did that with our buses.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>And Trish says even in progressive Berkeley, bussing for integration wasn’t always popular.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Trish McDermott: \u003c/b>Big, crowded school board meetings, a lot of pushback.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>They eventually got it done.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Trish McDermott: \u003c/b>It’s change that we’re very proud of, and it really is the legacy of our transportation department as it exists today.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Archival tape: \u003c/b>Oxford is typical of a school in Berkeley’s white middle-class neighborhood. Last year, Oxford student body had one Negro member. Today, 40% of the 325 students are black.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>It’s a progressive district, and they care about creating schools that are diverse and integrated. So, what they do is assign elementary school students to a zone, and then they look at the census for income data and parental education data to assign students to different schools. And then they use school buses to help kids and families get to the school that they were assigned to.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>Berkeley is doing this, but how does that stack up against all the other hundreds of school districts in California?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>Well, it’s important to know that there’s no law in California that requires school districts to provide buses to general education students. So every district kind of looks at its budget and their student population and decides, you know, can we afford to do this or not? Is this where we want to spend our limited resources? You always have to make tradeoffs. So in a rural district, for example, they often prioritize school transportation because the distances are longer. There maybe aren’t any public transportation options for students, and the schools are more spread out. So bussing is sort of essential to getting kids to school.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I will say that every district does need to provide some school busses, because they are federally mandated to transport certain groups of students to school. So if a student has transportation as part of their Individualized Education program, for example, maybe they have a disability or something like that, then they get transportation to school, and that is federally mandated.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>One district that actually does provide school buses for general education kids is San Francisco, which might actually surprise some families in San Francisco because a lot of families have to drive their kids to school or walk them to school or find some other way to get there. But there are a few school buses, 35 buses that the district runs. And again, it is also for equity reasons, largely the routes start on the south side of the city where there’s often more kids. It tends to be like lower-income neighborhoods, and the routes take kids to the west side of the city, and that’s to provide access to language programs, other schools, and basically makes sure that they have access to the rest of the city.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>There must be families who would use bussing if it came to them, and it just doesn’t. What do those people do?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>Well, you know, some kids walk to school if they’re close enough, some kids bike to school. But about two-thirds of California students get a ride to school in a private vehicle. So obviously that’s not great for the environment. And it’s a big ask of families. I mean, plenty of people don’t have cars, so some districts try to help out by partnering with public transportation systems. So in San Francisco, for example, school kids can ride Muni for free. And the district says that every school is served by at least one Muni bus line or train line. In the East Bay. It’s AC transit, and they actually reach out to the school districts around them and try to align their bus schedules to the school. Will start and end times to make it easier for kids to ride.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz in scene:\u003c/b> I’m here at De Anza High School in Richmond. And it’s interesting because, like, all the AC transit buses are waiting here, like school buses. They’re pulled up off the street in this little pick-up zone. And there’s a bunch of kids who came out of school who are waiting around for the buses to leave.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Sound of fare machine beeping]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>About 20 minutes after school let out…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz in scene:\u003c/b> So all the kids are, like, crowded around the door waiting to get on the bus.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Sounds of bus honking and accelerating]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>The bus takes off. And it takes a route through the school boundary zone so that all these kids can get back home. But if there was another patron on the street who wanted to ride, they could easily get on the bus anywhere along the route.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>I mean, I imagine this, you know, really boils down to sort of a problem on the equity front, right? Because, OK, even if parents are able to take their kids to school because of their schedule, that still is going to mean they’re going to have to have a car that’s operational. That requires a certain amount of money. Be up to date on insurance. Or I mean, the other thing to consider is like, that’s going to limit the shift work that perhaps parents could do if they’re going to have to know that they need to be available to take their kid to school at a certain time. That’s a constraint that, especially if you’re living, you know, on a low-income salary, that’s just one more thing that you’re sort of juggling in an already pretty complicated life.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>Yeah, I think it is an equity issue, although it’s a little bit unclear how big of one it is. I mean, obviously any family that has more flexibility and more mobility is going to have more choices. And all the things that you laid out are true. But there are a lot of other factors that make schools unequal in California. So it’s hard to say how much of a difference a school bus would really make to the whole big picture. One thing that Sam Speroni says, though, is that if California as a state wants to even the playing field for families by offering choices about what schools a family might send their kid to, transportation really needs to be part of that conversation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sam Speroni: \u003c/b>Ultimately, you don’t have school choice if you don’t have transportation to those choices.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>And then the other problem that Sam Speroni brought up — this is a national problem — there’s a huge school bus driver shortage.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sam Speroni: \u003c/b>With the buses we already have. We’re struggling to staff them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>The school bus drivers have to have a special commercial driver’s license, which is also what you use for trucking or other types of delivery jobs. And often those jobs pay more. So in this current economy, it’s very hard to retain your school bus drivers. And we’re seeing that even in places that have much more robust bussing, they’re having a lot of trouble staffing their buses.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>Now, given everything you’ve learned, are there likely to be any changes to how many school buses California schools offer?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>I mean, a number of people have flagged this as a problem. It’s an equity issue, as we already talked about. So, State Sen. Nancy Skinner actually introduced a bill in 2022 that would have provided universal school transportation for California public school students. And she did that because she argued that providing dedicated funds for school transportation would actually improve attendance. It would help with chronic absenteeism, and especially for low income students, it could also improve outcomes at school, too. But this bill was estimated to cost the state $1.4 billion. And so it had some support in the state Senate, but ultimately it didn’t advance.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>$1.4 billion is a lot of money. But still, you know, as someone who rode a school bus, I do have a little bit of nostalgia for those big yellow buses. And I find it a little sad that, you know, I have a 3-year-old, and he isn’t likely to ride a bus in California and have that special relationship with his bus driver.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>Yeah, I mean, I definitely got the sense from our question-asker, Jules, that she finds it a bit sad. I mean, she really had a positive experience on the bus and felt like it really created community. And not having them around here in the Bay area seems like just another way that the social fabric is fraying a little bit.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jules Winters: \u003c/b>I guess I’ve always imagined that buses are like a library or a firefighter station or a police station like it’s this community service that is part of the inlaid structure of what makes it a community or what makes it a school for that community. So it just boggles my mind that it’s not part of any of these communities here.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>Well, Katrina Schwartz, thank you so much for bringing the story to us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>You’re welcome. I’m sorry I couldn’t get more cute kids on buses. Apparently, there’s a lot of liability issues with getting on school buses.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>The woes of education reporting.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>Yes. It’s hard.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/b>Big thanks to Jules Winters for asking this week’s question. If you’ve got a question you’d like Bay Curious to take on, head to baycurious.org and fill out our form at the top of the page. While you’re there, vote in our March voting round. Here are the options under consideration.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Voice 1 \u003c/b>Have you noticed all the motels along Lombard Street? I have. Ever since I was a kid, I’ve always wondered why. Can you find out?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Voice 2 \u003c/b>At the San Francisco Opera House, there’s a chandelier high above the orchestra level. How do they change the light bulbs when they burn out?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Voice 3 \u003c/b>San Mateo County has an official shared housing program, which helps people find housing in someone else’s home. How well is it working?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"floatright"},"numeric":["floatright"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/b>Again, that’s \u003ca href=\"http://www.baycurious.org\">baycurious.org\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11980715/why-dont-more-bay-area-kids-ride-school-buses","authors":["234"],"programs":["news_33523"],"series":["news_17986"],"categories":["news_31795","news_18540","news_28250","news_8","news_1397"],"tags":["news_20013","news_27626","news_23484","news_3133"],"featImg":"news_11980722","label":"source_news_11980715"}},"programsReducer":{"possible":{"id":"possible","title":"Possible","info":"Possible is hosted by entrepreneur Reid Hoffman and writer Aria Finger. Together in Possible, Hoffman and Finger lead enlightening discussions about building a brighter collective future. The show features interviews with visionary guests like Trevor Noah, Sam Altman and Janette Sadik-Khan. Possible paints an optimistic portrait of the world we can create through science, policy, business, art and our shared humanity. It asks: What if everything goes right for once? How can we get there? 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